Committee on Civil Service and Labor

Make sure my phone is off. Yeah. Good morning. Welcome to today's New York City Council hearing for the Committee on Civil Service and Labor. At this time, please silence all phones. If you wish to speak in today's hearing, please fill out one of the appearance cards with one of the sergeants. Moving forward, no one is to approach the dais.

Chair, you may begin.

Good morning, and welcome to today's hearing of the New York City Council's Committee on Civil Service and Labor. I'm Councilmember Shirley Aldebal, chair of this committee. Today we will be discussing municipal recruitment and pathways to civil service. In April, this committee held a hearing on rebuilding the municipal workforce, where we discussed the new administration's hiring strategies and heard from DCAS Commissioner Kitasei about how the new administration planned to advance the municipal workforce.

These discussions touched on several different strategies to expand pathways into civil service. Currently, the administration operates several programs aimed at recruiting talented candidates to serve the city they love, and ensuring that they are equipped with the information they need to successfully find a position that suits their skills. The Civil Service Pathways Fellowship, which is administered by DCAS in partnership with CUNY, focuses on recent graduates and offers participants a 2-year full-time job with city agencies and a chance to take civil service exam after the first year of completed service.

DCAS also offers the Public Service Corps Program, which facilitates internships with the administration through a work-study program for applicants who are currently in their undergraduate or graduate degree programs. These initiatives are offered alongside regular outreach and recruitment events through the Civil Service Ambassador Program. These programs are designed to provide applicants with the skills and information needed to navigate the application process into the municipal workforce, with particular emphasis on increasing equity and representation within civil service.

DCAS also has a dedicated Office of Citywide Recruitment, which is tasked with building partnerships with educational, institutional, and community-based organizations to promote city government jobs. These efforts are reflected in the 308 outreach events that OCR participated in fiscal year 2025 that were conducted across the city. Furthermore, we want to highlight that OCR has recently expanded the types of pathways at which they are holding these events, including increased outreach at foster care programs and juvenile justice facilities.

Yet despite these efforts, the city still has a vacancy rate of nearly 5%, overall, with some agencies seeing vacancy rates in the double digits. The Department of Social Services, for example, whose staff supports some of our most vulnerable New Yorkers, has a vacancy rate of 15— of almost 15%, and the Human Rights Commission has a vacancy rate of nearly 20%.

Civil service vacancies have remained persistent, and we have heard from municipal workers, union representatives, and advocates that hiring delays can take over a year. When that timeline is paired with noncompetitive salaries, inconsistent training, and limited upskilling opportunities, the civil service becomes unattractive to many highly qualified potential employees. Moreover, while we understand that these existing timelines mean that the new administration's expanded strategies will not show measurable results yet, We are committed to ensuring that the policies being implemented today will only serve to improve the civil service process of tomorrow.

This committee looks forward to conducting oversight on the department's required outreach and recruitment, ask about how new initiatives such as the youth apprenticeship title, and delve into how this administration plans to focus its efforts to ensure a fully staffed municipal workforce.

Thank you. Before we begin, I'd like to thank committee staff, Senior Policy Analyst Nina Rosenberg, and Senior Legislative Counsel Rie Ogasuara for their hard work in preparing this hearing. I'd also like to thank my Chief of Staff Sophia Brown and my District 13 team for the work that you do to serve the Bronxite District 13 constituents. At this point, I would like to recognize that we've been joined by Councilmembers Frank Morano and Crystal Hudson.

I will now hear testimony from representatives of DCAS, and I'll turn to committee counsel to administer the oath for this panel. Thank you, Chair. All right, good morning. We will now hear testimony from the administration. Before we begin, I will administer the affirmation. Panelists, please raise your right hand. I will read the affirmation once, then call on each of you individually to respond.

Do you affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth before this committee, and to respond honestly to councilmember questions? I do. Councilmember Herbold? I do. Councilmember Sawant? I do. Councilmember Sawant? I do. Yes. Thank you. This is Commissioner Uthar. Yes. Thank you.

Good morning, Chair Aldabaugh and members of the City Council's Committee on Civil Service and Labor. My name is Katrina Porter, and I proudly serve as Deputy Commissioner and Chief Human Capital Officer for the Department of Citywide Administrative Services, more commonly known as DCAS. I am joined today by my colleague, Kadian Otar, Assistant Commissioner for Workforce Operations at DCAS.

We are grateful for the opportunity to be here with you today to discuss the vital city civil service career pathway programs overseen by our agency. Each program has its own distinct qualities, but together they They create pathways into public service for a wide range of talent, from those just beginning their careers to those looking to advance and grow, as well as professionals with highly specialized skills and expertise.

What connects them all is a shared interest in serving government and making a difference for New Yorkers. Together, these programs are part of our broader efforts to bring top talent into city agencies, and most importantly, offer New Yorkers opportunities to build meaningful, long-term, and life-changing careers in public service. To achieve this, DCAS supports agencies by employing strategic, targeted, and ongoing recruitment efforts, as well as creating spaces and forums for professional development.

It gives us great pride to say that DCAS is often there for municipal staff from their very first government application to their first day of work, all the way through to the day they retire. We also share the council's interest in ensuring that there are ample pipelines into city service and that those pathways are strong, robust, and continue to evolve to meet the ever-changing workforce landscape.

Recognizing how the way people find, access, and engage with information has changed, and we've invested in new ways to make civil service more accessible. Starting this past July 1st, 2026, civil service exams are now free for New York City high school students and first-time test takers. This includes all of the city's students, those attending a public school, private school, charter school, parochial school, or homeschool.

This has also afforded us an opportunity to potentially reach millions of first-time test takers. This initiative was undertaken as part of our compliance with Local Law 57 of 2005, illustrates what we can achieve when government works together. It is as much a win for us as it is for the council, and we are grateful for the partnership.

Coupled with our existing fee waivers, DCAS is working to ensure that financial barriers do not stop a prospective candidate from applying and taking an exam. In addition, this past July, we rolled out a new update that allowed notices of examination to be translated into any language a candidate is most comfortable with. We would like to recognize Councilmember Carmen De La Rosa for this idea, and we are very excited to see how translatable notices of exams can remove limitations to accessing information about civil service opportunities.

Thank you. As part of our compliance with Local Law 191 of 2005, DCAS has also begun producing and distributing brochures to CUNY for prospective, current, and recent graduate— graduated students designed to demystify the civil service system and provide easily digestible information on how to get a job in city government. With hundreds of thousands of students across the city, this is another vital touchpoint to recruit for municipal Now I'd like to talk more about our marquee programs at DCAS: Civil Service Pathway Fellowship, the Urban Fellows Program, the Public Service Corps Summer Internship Program, and 55A.

The Civil Service Pathway Fellowship is a 2-year program for City University of New York graduates designed to create a pipeline from college to career in— from college to a career in civil service. The fellowship is a full— is full-time and offers competitive salary and benefits for graduates. Perhaps most importantly, fellows receive professional development training and experience that helps them to qualify for various civil service exams after completing the first year of the program.

After completing the program, fellows can transition into a full-time position within their agency. The Civil Service Pathway Fellowship serves as a critical component of our talent pipeline, We recruit interested college and graduate students for 7 different career tracks through our program, which helps agencies and mayoral offices fill critical service roles. Just this past August, we announced a major expansion to this program, increasing it to 400 fellows up from the prior 200, doubling the reach of the program and creating a second yearly cohort, creating even more opportunities for recent graduates to join.

This program has been nothing short of successful, with approximately 75% of graduates transitioning to full-time jobs from the program. Another program we administer is the New York City Public Service Corps, the nation's first and largest off-campus internship program that connects undergraduate and graduate students who participate in federal work-study with paid or academic credit internships across a range of city agencies.

DCAS partners with the New York City— with New York City colleges, universities, and city agencies to offer diverse internship experiences that expose students to public service careers. Celebrating its 60th year this year, Public Service Corps provides interns with crucial experience to help them set— to help set them up on a path to public service. This year, 13 agency partners are hosting more than 120 Public Service Corps interns.

This program is a tremendously beneficial one and has seen many city, city leaders come through the program. I would also like to highlight 2 shorter-term programs that we oversee. The first is the Summer Internship Program, which provides graduate and undergraduate students and recent graduates with valuable experience working for city government. Interns work on meaningful projects, build professional skills, and explore career opportunities across a wide range of city agencies.

Interns can work during the summer from May through September for a maximum of 13 weeks. This year, over 900 interns were hired across 27 agencies. The second of our shorter-term programs is the Urban Fellows Program, a 9-month fellowship that combines work in mayoral offices and city agencies with volunteer service opportunities and a weekly seminar series that explores current urban issues impacting public policy.

Urban Fellows are placed at an array of agencies across the city where they learn about public policy through a hands-on approach. We continue to see a growing number of fellows remain in city government, with 77% staying on last year and 38% staying staying on this year. The last pathway I would like to speak on is our 55 program, a valuable asset in our recruitment portfolio.

Our administration of the 55 program allows a qualified person with a certified mental or physical disability to be hired into competitive civil service positions without having to take an exam. As stated earlier, most City of New York jobs require the candidates to take and pass a competitive Civil Service Exam before they can be hired. Through our 55 program, eligible, eligible persons are evaluated for positions based on their qualifications and interviews.

This program is a great equalizer for municipal hiring and promotes city work in an equitable manner for New Yorkers. Currently, we are working closely with the Mayor's Office of People with Disabilities to amplify its reach. In tandem, with our marquee program— our marquee recruitment programs, civil service exams continue to be the most important pathway into city jobs.

Exams are the most well-known facets of DCAS's work to promote municipal work to New Yorkers. More than 80% of city job— city government positions require a civil service test, and it is the most critical pathway to service that we oversee. Each year, DCAS typically administers more than 200 exams. Administering exams is one thing. Making sure New Yorkers know about those opportunities, understand the process, and can easily take the next step is another.

That is why we take every opportunity to broaden the conversation around civil service exams and the benefits of a career with the city. We are expanding our outreach across media channels, developing thoughtful, strategic social media content designed to demystify civil service and meeting New Yorkers where they are. And we are also finding ways to make the exam process more accessible and streamlined, evidenced by innovations like the New York City Bridge Exam.

With the New York City Bridge Exam, candidates pay one fee, take one exam, and become eligible for multiple positions. In its 5th year of administration, Bridge Exams are removing barriers and making the path into public service a far more efficient process for New Yorkers. As for recruitment, our Office of Citywide Recruitment is focused on meeting New Yorkers where they are across all 5 boroughs and at every stage of their career journey.

You will find DCAS representatives at New York City Jobs hiring halls, at career fairs, and in communities connecting directly with New Yorkers looking for work. We also partner with city agencies to host title-specific hiring events that help address their immediate workforce needs. These efforts connect with New Yorkers where they are, and I'm proud to say that we have engaged tens of thousands of prospective candidates across the 5 boroughs through these programs.

Our work isn't just about filling jobs. We are also invested in helping New Yorkers understand how they can build a career in public service. Throughout each year, we host Civil Service 101 presentations at New York City public schools, higher education institutions, with community-based organizations, and at faith-based institutions across the city, providing practical information about how to navigate the civil service process and explore opportunities in municipal government.

We also look to connect to a wide range of audiences through multiple mediums, from direct person-to-person engagement to social media and press outreach. We take a comprehensive approach to promote civil service. In addition, we also publish the New York City Jobs newsletter and send out monthly e-blasts to get word— to get the word out to hundreds of thousands of New Yorkers about career opportunities in municipal government, in addition to the efforts undertaken at the agency level.

With the monthly New York City Jobs newsletter alone, we reach more than 250,000 New Yorkers looking for work. Beyond, we also manage and maintain New York City's job website. In 2025, the New York City Jobs website received over 1.8 million applications. When it comes to social media, we are currently expanding our presence online and looking to more generally utilize this important touchpoint.

As per our last analysis, our average reach across our social media channel is north of 460,000 impressions and growing. When it comes to social media, we are executing a highly intentional, data-driven strategy to maximize this critical touchpoint. Rather than simply expanding our presence, we have actively shifted our focus to authentic storytelling, short-form video, and real-time community engagement.

As a result of this approach, our latest analysis for the month of August shows our cumulative reach across our social media channels has surged to over 460,000 impressions, a massive 251% increase year over year. Additionally, the strategic pivot has skyrocketed our total audience interactions by 329% and our video views by 408%, proving that our streamlined operations are deeply resonating with New Yorkers and rapidly growing our digital community.

In conclusion, at DCAS, we are passionate about helping New Yorkers join civil service, and we are working tirelessly to position the City of New York as an employer of choice. The civil service system unquestionably provides a pathway to the middle class for underserved and underrepresented communities. Through the initiatives, programs, apprenticeships, and partnerships we've detailed here, DCAS has continued to expand access to government jobs.

As we look ahead, please know that we are actively enacting strategic plans that will make our civil service system faster, more transparent, and aligned with the 21st century workforce and the city's operational needs. Thank you for the time— for your time and attention, and I'm happy now to answer any questions you may have.

Thank you so much for for your testimony. I want to recognize Councilmember Caban, who is online. I'm going to— rather than me start asking questions, because I have a lot of questions to ask, I'm going to turn it over to my colleagues first. You know, this is like odd, right? Because I know there are other hearings going on, and I want you to have an opportunity.

I'm here for the long haul. So I would— I'm going to turn it over first to Councilmember Morano to ask. Thank you, Chair. I appreciate the consideration. I think every councilmember has the experience of being in a hearing for 20, 30, 40 minutes without being able to ask a single question because the chair chooses to ask so many of those questions.

So thank you for the consideration as well. Thank you, Deputy Commissioner, for your testimony as well. I want to begin with our veterans. I have the privilege of serving as the Veterans Committee Chair, so it's an issue that I'm particularly interested in. Your testimony discusses several recruitment programs, but I'd like to know what we're doing specifically to recruit veterans into city government.

We know veterans can use VetConnect NYC. to access different employment services, but the comptroller's report recently raised some concerns about that portal. What is DCAS doing to recruit veterans simply beyond referring them to a website? Thank you for that question. And so first and foremost, we work very closely with our sister agency, you know, the Department of Veterans Affairs, to share information about upcoming examinations and, you know, information that would help attract veterans into the city's workforce.

In addition, as it relates to our examination program, veterans are also, you know, eligible to take— to claim, you know, special credits and fee waivers to help remove any barriers into the civil service system. I would also mention that we most recently participated in an event with the Department of Veterans Affairs to share information about civil service.

Our Office of Citywide Recruitment attended, and we were there, you know, to share information about the civil service system in general, examinations, and other services that may be available to veterans who are looking to join the system. So, you know, in general, we do share that information broadly with our sister agency. And, Kayden, I don't know if you want to add anything. anything else?

Thank you for that question. We do engage communities that work specifically with veterans. So, across the years, we tried to develop relationships specifically with those organizations. We also try to work with schools who have veteran-specific offices and to share the information about civil service, to go into more details about the veteran fee waivers that folks are able to get, the spouse fee waivers, and also going into more details about what it means to qualify for the veterans credit.

So, we also have those individuals on our mailing list who's getting our newsletters on a regular basis. There's always opportunities to increase our outreach to those communities, but we're definitely making a dedicated effort to reach that community.

A couple of quick non-veterans-related questions. Your testimony says the NYC Jobs website received more than 1.8 million applications last year. That's an enormous number. How many of those 1.8 million applications actually resulted in someone getting a job? Do you track that number? We do. For 2025, it was about a little over 20,000 positions were filled through the jobs website.

And, you know, those are positions that do not require a civil service exam. It's interview-based hiring. But yeah, that's the number, about 20,000. One of the things that came up in the recent budget battle is the battle over positions that we might be paying for, or which might be called for in the budget but aren't necessarily filled.

How many of the applications that you guys received were submitted for positions that agencies did not yet have the approval or funding to fill? That's a good question. We would have to get back to you to, you know, give you a concrete number, but in general, positions that are posted on the jobs website are proved to be failed.

Gotcha.

I noticed something interesting towards the end of your testimony. You report that your social media impressions are up 251%. We'll have to chat privately so you can give me some tips. Audience interactions are up 329% and video views are up 408%. Those are remarkably impressive. But how many additional people actually got hired because of those campaigns? Are you measuring that?

Because I don't necessarily think the public should judge a recruitment program by how many people watch the video. We should judge it obviously by whether they found jobs or not. So first I'll say that those numbers are directly contributed to our commissioner's commitment to getting out information about city jobs and, you know, demystifying how to engage with the system.

What I will say is that it may be a little bit too, you know, early to kind of correlate folks that are actually getting jobs to the information that we're posting on social media. However, I think that it's an amazing step in the right direction to, you know, just continue to share information about the good jobs that are available.

One final question, if I may, Chair. According to the council's briefing paper, DCAS held 178 qualifying civil service ambassador events In fiscal year 2025, only 7 were on Staten Island. Your testimony says you're meeting New Yorkers where they are across all 5 boroughs. How many Staten Islanders actually got hired as a result of those 7 events? We would have to check and see if we can get back to you on that.

But the main focus of these events is to share information about the system, not so much to, you know, tout a specific job or position. The goal is to help folks understand how to engage with us and where to go for information in the event that they are looking for a particular job. And Kayden, I don't know if you want to add anything else.

Okay. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you, Councilmember Hudson. Thank you so much, Chair, and hello, Deputy Commissioner. One question I had from your testimony was you said we continue to see a growing number of fellows remaining in city government. This was specifically about the Urban Fellows Program. With 77% staying on last year and 38% staying on this year, which years can you— can those numbers be attributed to specifically?

Calendar years? Fiscal years? So that'll be for the program year. So our Urban Fellow program year usually starts from the— let's say this year we have a new group that starts from 2026, so they'll go into 2027. So for the 38%, it was from 2025 to 2026. And then for the 78%, it was from 2024 into 2025.

So they run from September to— September to August. We have some people that may stay on until August, yes. Okay. I'm just trying to figure out why there was such a drop and if the year that you're referring to, the 38%, is completed or if this is a partial number. completed, there are several factors that ties into whether or not individuals are able to stay on.

As we mentioned, it's a 9-month program, and so we do a couple of things in order to keep folks that are engaged and interested in city government. We also know that individuals that participate in the program, they may relocate from a different city or state to participate, and so it also depends on the opportunities that are available to them.

So, we know that for the 78%, which was for the previous program year— You said '24, '25. And sorry, I didn't catch the 9-month piece. So, yeah, so both are completed, but the 77%, you said, is from '24 into '25? Yes. Okay. Okay, sorry. I stopped you in the middle. Yes. And so, it really depends on the vacancies and the positions that are available and the interest of the candidates.

We do a lot of focus on letting sure— making sure people are aware of the civil service process, aware and taking civil service exams. There may be opportunities that are directly related to the positions that they are intern— they're doing the fellowship with. So, they're able to go into that full-time positions at the agencies. For the last program year that ends up where we're at 38%, we know that there are still individuals that are interested and engaged.

They're currently going through the interview process. are they maybe considering or taking an exam and waiting on a list to be hired. Okay, so then based on that, I would say it's safe to assume that perhaps more people from the last year will— could potentially be hired? Yes. Okay, so the 77% is counting people from the '24-'25 year who could have still been hired in 2026, and so that could be— attributed to the lower number, with the 38%.

It just seems like a big drop. So I'm just trying to figure out, you know, the 77% seems like a great number and a lot of people that moved on into, you know, civil servant work and 38%, not so much. But if people are still going through the process and— People are still going through the process. Okay.

And then I just had another question. Many city positions are vital to the health and well-being of New Yorkers but require extremely technical and detailed knowledge. For example, the current Legionnaires' outbreak may have been exacerbated by staffing shortages for water inspectors, and trained DOB building inspectors are integral to support the city's ambitious housing strategy. How does DCAS target its recruitment for hard-to-recruit or specialty titles that require immediate staffing of highly qualified technical experts?

And are there any special processes for urgent situations such as the Legionnaires' outbreak? Are there methods to expedite accreditation or certification for positions that require such credentials? So what I will start by saying is that, you know, DCAS, we work in partnership with city agencies to develop our annual examination schedule. You know, 80% of the positions that are used across the city requires exams.

So that's first and foremost. Our first step with agencies is understanding their immediate hiring needs to ensure that we're developing a recruitment strategy to support their immediate and/or future hiring needs. Can I just ask you there, do those assessments ever change in real time? So you might do, you know, you might coordinate with or find out from an agency at the beginning of the year what their needs may be, and then you have an outbreak such as this Legionnaires' outbreak, and then the needs may change.

How quickly are you able to shift your recruitment efforts? We're able to shift immediately. So immediately meaning we can move an exam. Later in the exam schedule to give the agency more flexibility to conduct interview-based hiring or add an exam to the annual examination schedule and use the applicant pool, for instance, as a recruitment source. So, as folks are applying, we provide that data to agencies so that they can immediately engage with prospective applicants for immediate hiring needs.

We also have the Office of Citywide Recruitment boots on the ground that can help amplify immediate hiring needs. and also host what we call special hiring events to attract top talent for immediate hiring needs. So it's really more about agencies communicating their needs to us and us being available to, you know, immediately available to address any hiring needs that they may have.

Do you know if either during the summer when the outbreak, when there was an outbreak in the Upper East Side or now as there is one in the South Bronx, Do you know if there have been any— any of those positions have been filled? So we would have to get back to you on exact numbers. Hiring happens at the agency level.

So unless the agency amplifies it to DCAS for support, we would not have insight to, like, you know, direct hiring that's happening at the agency level. Do you know if DOHMH did that with DCAS? I would have to take this back and we can definitely circle back. I don't have that information in front of me. Okay. It would be great to know whether or not that happened in real time.

Of course. And is currently happening. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Councilmember. So we are aware that DCAS has been undertaking a minimum qualifications review of civil service titles in the hopes that some unnecessary unnecessary eligibility requirements can be eliminated. And as of April 2025, DCAS reviewed 90 titles, resulting in amendments to requirements for 61 of those titles, which impacted over 53,000 individual positions. Have there been more minimum qualification reviews that have been completed since then?

And if so, how many titles have been amended? How many individual positions do these amendments impact? Thank you for that question, Chair. As a quick update, currently we've reviewed about 116 titles, and we've seen a slight increase in expansion, MQR expansions, to about 69 titles. This process is ongoing. We are continuing to review minimum qualification requirements for the titles in the city's title portfolio, and we'll continue to make adjustments where necessary.

According to the recently released Mayor's Management Report, in FY26, there were 119,117 applications received for civil service exams. exams compared to 166,000 in fiscal year '25. To what does DCAS attribute the decrease in applications? So thank you for that question. The application number is a dynamic number. It's really based on the exams that we're offering for a particular fiscal year.

So for instance, in fiscal years when we're offering a title like sanitation worker, where we receive you know, 150,000 applications. We'll see, you know, an increase. That number would be higher than a year where maybe we're giving more technical titles, like engineering, or more specialized titles where we see smaller applicant pools. So, you know, I can give you a more direct answer, but on, you know, in general, that's usually why you see, like, the fluctuation in examination numbers.

And is that— that testing schedule is based on the need that the agencies will ask DCAS for, or? Yeah. So, civil service lists in general, they're usually valid so long as there are candidates available for up to 4 years. So, we usually give exams on a 2- to 3-year cycle unless it's a title where there may be an immediate hiring need where we need to give it more often.

So, like police officer, we know that the city is in need of police officers, so we give that exam every month. So, we give it 12 times a year. Whereby a title like sanitation worker, where we have a larger applicant pool, we may give that exam every 3 to 4 years. And how frequently do you actually hire from those, those lists?

Like, for example, the police officer? Yes. So, hiring happens at the agency level. The way it works is that they would contact DCAS when they're ready to hire, and then we would issue them what we call a list certification, which contains the names of candidates who took and passed the examination and are available to be considered for employment.

And generally speaking, how long does it take to establish a list and then certify the list? list and actually get people hired off the list? So that's a great question. If we look at the data, right, like, if we look at the mayor's management report where we have a metric that measures the time between when we administer an exam to when an exam is established, right now we're under target.

We have a median time of 101 days between exam administration and establishment. Now, once the list is established, it would depend upon the agency's, you know, need to hire. That would determine how quickly those lists move.

So, why does it take so long for exams to be scored? Because it, you know, 101 business days is quite a long time. You know, people are looking for a job, they're waiting. They take an exam, they're waiting. It's still a long time, even though there is a decrease from 158 business days. Yeah. Yeah, I can definitely explain that.

So there are legally mandated processes that come along with the exam development process, mostly to ensure that, you know, our test takers have the ability to, you know, review and, you know, well, what I'll say is like appeal parts of the process that they may have questions about. And so by law, we have to set aside certain timeframes to administer those processes.

So in general, that's, you know, what takes the most time is those legally mandated aspects of the process that we must manage before we can establish an examination. I know that we had a hearing on Legionnaires and DOHMH commissioner said that they got, you know, authorization to hire in November, or they got the budgeted headcount in November and they were able to hire before The summer, which was, I would say, roughly 6, 7 months, which is a much shorter timeframe.

Still quite long, but a much shorter timeframe to get people hired. It was, I guess, an emergency situation. So how does that happen? And we can't seem to do that. for other technical titles like that one? You know, our goal is to continue to look for ways to streamline and expedite, you know, the hiring process. And we're doing that through, you know, reviewing our technology and, you know, figuring out ways to move things faster.

I will say that I'm proud of the DCAS team and how we've been able to reduce the time between exam administration and list establishment. In some cases, we're establishing lists within 90 days. So police officer, we have a standard there where within 120 days, less than 120 days, that list is available to the agency, you know, to hire.

In addition, I would also add that there are opportunities for agencies to leverage data. So the data that comes along with the process. The applicant pool, right? So, like, at the end of the application period, if an agency has an immediate hiring— immediate need to hire, we can share that information with them to help expedite their recruitment process.

So, you know, we're always looking for ways. There, you know, I will say that there is room for improvement, and we're committed to doing so. Yeah. 208 civil service exams that were open for filing in fiscal 2026, 57 of those exams took fewer than 100 days for completion. The MMR describes that there's a variation in the median completion time due to the types of exams administered, with single-part exams being quicker to grade than investigation before appointment exams, which requires the additional investigative Given the fact that exam grading already takes a significant amount of time, are there ways that the investigative stage could be completed prior to examination or could be done by a different team than the core staff who are tasked with grading the exams?

That's a great question, and we are looking for ways to reimagine how we manage investigate before appointment titles. We do recognize that it is a longer timeline, but once again, that process does not preclude an agency from hiring. If they have an immediate hiring need, they can use that published list to hire from until we complete the fuller background investigations.

But we do recognize that it is a very protracted process, and we are looking for ways to reduce that timeframe. Thank you. Thank you.

Although DCAS has several initiatives that are aimed toward recruiting high-quality candidates, such efforts can be fruitless due to the extended timeline for examination and hire, which in some cases can take well over a year. Many applicants simply cannot wait for long— wait that long for a job offer. What advice do you share for candidates who are in this difficult position, and do you have suggestions for how this recruitment and hiring process can be expedited through removal of bureaucratic hurdles, and what bureaucratic hurdles or barriers can realistically be removed to make it faster?

So thank you for that. You know, what I'll say is that we do recognize that the city's hiring process has been, you know, a point of, you know, concern for the general public and, you know, folks who may be looking for employment for some time. And what I can say here is that, you know, we recognize that and we're, you know, in talks with our sister agencies, with labor, with the City Council to develop new strategies to demystify the civil service, you know, how to engage with the civil service system overall.

And we also have the Office of Citywide Recruitment who, you know, Kayden, if you want to share some of the strategies that you folks use to engage and inform the public about civil service. Thank you. One of the things that we make clear is that there's more than one way to get into city government. We want to make sure that if somebody's taking an exam, then they're taking an exam, but they're not just waiting for the results of that.

We let them know that there are other opportunities to get immediate hire, so they can apply for open vacancies on our website. They can participate in, you know, some of our immediate hire events that we hold. We also, if there's somebody that's qualified for programming, our career pathway programs, then we speak to them about that. I think one of the main things is just letting people know the different options that are available to them, and it's not like a sit and wait.

It's like, hey, if you're, you know, start the application process early. If you're in school, you are able to apply for a position or an exam before you graduate. So, So we really use that form to make sure that people know what options are available to them.

So I want to go back to veterans and more underrepresented populations. How many events did you hold with the Department of Veterans Affairs, if you know that? I don't have that number right now. We can definitely get back to you. One of the things that we try to do is to partner on— Katrina mentioned the recent event that we participated in.

We try to do special events like our City Talk sessions where we try to get veterans who are serving in different roles. Normally, we try to look at not just the direct uniform roles that some people envision veterans to go in, but to show a diversity of the work that veterans can do within our city. government to just spotlight some of the things that they're doing so other individuals can see themselves in the program.

But I can definitely get— we can get back to you on the total events that we've done with DBS. Thank you. I appreciate that.

So I want to talk a little bit about past local law implementation. Pursuant to Local Law 191 of 2025, DCAS was required to provide materials to CUNY by July 1st of this year to promote careers in civil service. These materials include information about civil service process, descriptions of related CUNY programs, and a link to the examination webpage.

Given DCAS's close coordination with CUNY on many civil service pathway initiatives, are there any courses or programs offered at CUNY that you would recommend to civil service applicants writ large to help improve career readiness? Our engagement with CUNY and the students is more about promoting the opportunities that are available to them, the civil service examinations. What we notice is that a lot of people are just not aware of the program, and then because of the diversity in the jobs that are available for city government, it's hard for us to say, hey, if you take this particular class, then you're, you know, you can apply for city jobs.

There's a variety of jobs that CUNY students can qualify for, especially with our civil service pathway programs. There's about 7 different career tracks. So we focus a lot on giving them the information about how to get into those programs. We partner with CUNY for CUNY-specific events where we're sharing information about the application process. We have individuals that have gone through the process speak to them about what that process has been like.

Whenever we're having events, we want to make sure that— we make sure that they are invited to participate in those sessions. And sometimes it could be tied to career readiness, where we give them advice on how to participate and how to exceed or excel in the events that we have coming up. So, we may not particularly direct them to a class because of the nature of the jobs within the city, but we focus on information on the how-to when it comes to getting a job in city government.

Thank you.

Local Law 192 of 2025 requires DCAS to expand its promotion of civil service exams, particularly through LinkNYC, social media, agency websites, advertisements, TV, radio. Of these models of— of these modes of advertisement, are you able to gather information on which forms of advertisements has been more impactful? So, I guess the question is, when people apply for jobs, do you ask them, how did you hear about this?

Yes, we do have a question on our applications where we ask people how they find out about it. But one of the things that with our programming, the timing, it's usually not an immediate response, right? Because we may provide information about the civil service exams or the jobs, but because of that process, It may be a couple of months later or another year later before we can see the results from those advertisements.

I mean, we do have the opportunity for somebody to say, hey, we heard from it from social media. I mean, there may be opportunities to update that list, but normally what we see when people respond to that, it's going to be the very first thing that's on that list. That's what they're going to respond to. So it's not necessarily a reliable source to show exactly where people are finding out about the jobs. or the exams.

I kind of agree or disagree. No, I think it's helpful to know what's the most impactful, you know, way of getting information out to people so that you can then prioritize. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. What we're seeing is, let's say if we have a list of people, of how people find out about the job, and number one is like, I heard from a colleague.

Sometimes, that's what individuals select, but we still look, and, you know, there's an opportunity for us to go back and see within the last couple of months what does that look like. But we often see that people just gravitate to the first option that's on the list. Even for, you know, the job fairs that you hold or anything, do you ask people how they found out about those particular events, and how are you advertising those events?

For the job fairs that we hold that are specific to a title, we would advertise with our— we have our list of organizations that we work with, so we'll send them the information. We have those positions— we have the flyers posted on our job board, as well as there's a DCAS recruitment page for it. And then we, you know, create flyers and share it out to our communities and include it in our newsletter.

So, there are a variety of ways that we engage with people. I'd have to go back and check to see what's been the responses in terms of, like, how people find out about those specific events.

In an effort to make the application process less prohibitive, Local Laws 113 of 2023 and 57 of 2025 both focus on providing civil service examination fee waivers for justice-involved individuals, high school applicants, first-time applicants. Has DCAS tracked the examinations that such fee waivers were used for and whether there are any trends indicating that fee waivers can be used as a tool to encourage more applicants?

Yeah, we do track the exams for which fee waivers are offered. I don't have the information handy here, but what I can tell you is that since implementation in July, about 2,000 individuals have requested first-time test taker fee waivers, and 57 high schoolers have requested a fee waiver. If it's important, we can get back to you with the exact exams that they requested those waivers.

Thank you. That's— that would be helpful.

So on the Civil Service Ambassador Program, in fiscal year 2025, DCAS conducted 178 outreach events. that met the Civil Service Ambassador Program requirements, which is a huge leap from 48 events that were held in fiscal year 2024. Have you noticed an increase in applications or attendance at hiring halls or career fairs that corresponds with this increase in outreach events?

Thank you. I love this part because I'm excited to speak about the great work that the team does to engage the community. And so, Within the Career Pathways team, we try to look at what the needs of the agencies and the needs of the city and where we need to really make more impact and do outreach. So for fiscal year 2025, we're really focused on increasing our presence across the 5 boroughs and also working with our educational institutions, both with high schools and colleges.

I do want to clarify that we had 95 qualifying events in fiscal year '24, not 48. But we are trying to use more targeted outreach. I'm bumping your numbers. You know, we are trying to use more targeted outreach to engage the communities and making sure that we are reaching the larger groups. From every year, we evaluate how we do outreach.

Sometimes we have to figure out, are there combination of events that we can have? Are there different types of events that we can have that will reach the larger population? a larger group, but the same population that we're trying to target throughout the Civil Service Ambassador Program. And so, because of the nature of the program, because of the nature of the communities that we're reaching, we may be speaking to somebody that's in high school that may not be ready to apply for an exam.

It's hard to specifically tie in an increase in application to an increase in the event that we did for that same year. In the 2025 fiscal year, DCAS significantly expanded the locations and settings that Civil Service Ambassador program events were held in. As part of this expansion, there were events held at locations that DCAS had not reached in the past, such as juvenile justice facilities and foster care programs.

What— was there measurable interest in the materials that DCAS was distributing at these locations? And are you able to share if there are any individuals who submitted— if there are any individuals from from these groups who submitted applications for civil service exams following these events? I'm sorry, Chair, can you repeat that question and maybe a little bit louder?

I'm hard of hearing. Yeah. Was there— was there measurable interest in the materials that DCAS was distributing at these locations, the juvenile— such as juvenile justice centers, juvenile justice facilities and foster care programs? Yes. I think one of the great things that we see is whenever we go out there to speak to just anyone in the community, it's always like, oh, I didn't know, right?

Oh, there's an option that's available to us. Here's— especially when we engage with the justice-impacted individuals, there's this misconception that I can't work for city government if I have, you know, if I'm justice-impacted. And so we see a lot of people, it's just bringing the awareness to them that, hey, there is an opportunity available for you and here's the process.

And so we continue to engage that community because there continues to be interest in the information that we're sharing. This council has heard on the justice-impacted community that justice has heard significant concerns from justice-involved youth about critical barriers to education, particularly at secure detention facilities. Many young people report that they are not going to school or receiving an education.

In best cases, youth are given educational packets that receive little to no instruction. Would DCAS consider providing justice-involved youth with referrals to CUNY courses or career readiness materials to improve their likelihood of entering civil service? What I would say is that we're supportive of working with our sister agencies who oversee these facilities to ensure that the, you know, justice-involved youth have information readily available to them regarding the civil service system.

So that is something that we can definitely follow up on. Thank you.

In August 2026, the fellowship— the Civil Service Pathways Fellowship Program's capacity doubled from 200 to 400 fellows. Is that correct? What changes did DCAS need to make to accommodate this expansion, and are there plans to expand the fellowship further? And if so, what are those changes and plans? So we're very proud of the Civil Service Pathway Fellowship Program.

We have, you know, seen tremendous success with administering the program across the city. In order for us to expand the program further, it does require us to interact with the state's Civil Service Commission to develop proposals to expand the number, and we've been successful. This is the 3rd time that we're going back to the state to expand the program.

And so pretty much what they're looking for is that we're maximizing the number of positions that they approved previously. And so once we get to a, you know, a place where we're fully allocating the 400 positions, we're prepared to go back to the state to continue to increase that number.

We've been joined by Councilmember Ressler. Good morning, Councilmember. I'm going to take a break from asking questions to see if Councilmember Ressler has any questions. Brilliant. Thank you, Chair Aldebal. This is my first time joining one of your hearings, and it's a pleasure. One of my favorite new colleagues here on the council, and you've been just a tremendous asset as chair of this committee.

I feel like I go to you for questions and guidance on a range of issues, and it's been really helpful, and I really appreciate So thank you for bringing your expertise to the council. It's been a wonderful addition to the body. Thank you, Deputy Commissioner Porter and team and DCAS. I, you know, had a number of conversations with our amazing new DCAS commissioner at the beginning of her tenure, and she really emphasized that fixing the civil service process is at the top of her priority list.

And I really welcome that because we need that prioritization. We need to do a better job of hiring in city government. The timelines that it takes right now are, are simply unacceptable. The first question I just wanted to lean in on is around the hard-to-recruit positions. We have so many jobs in city government where we fail to fill them consistently over many years, but don't do very much about it.

And, you know, I was recently reading a book that emphasized, like, That when a transit authority hired more engineers, it actually significantly reduced costs on their contracts that they were spending, and that we need to do a better job of building in-house capacity. I know a longtime priority of DC 37. And so do more insourcing, not outsourcing.

And if we can fill those hard-to-recruit positions, it would make a huge difference. And so— I wanted to just ask kind of firstly, Has there been a comprehensive review of increasing salaries for hard-to-recruit positions, and even with an analysis of the savings that that could generate for the City of New York, for why we should be increasing these specific positions?

I know this is in part an OLR challenge, but I know you're the ones who are really trying to solve it, and they're trying to save us money. So please help us solve it. So what I can say is that there are many strategies and discussions that are underway to figure out how to modernize the civil service system and make things move faster, building in more transparency, and, you know, so that we can better support city agencies in general and the services that they provide.

As you mentioned, you know, DCAS, we, you know, we're not involved in salary setting per se, but we can definitely take the question back to, you know, answer if anything is going on. But from a DCAS perspective— Are you aware of OLR doing a Not that I'm privy to, but there are other things that, you know, other discussions that are underway to figure out, you know, how to modernize the system.

I know it's expensive. It could be potentially— it could seem potentially expensive, but I really think there are cost savings actually in solving for these vacancies and insourcing more that we have to rely on outside consultants because we don't have the capacity And I really think that DCAS and OLR need to do that comprehensive review. Relatedly, we had really bad retention data during the Eric Adams administration.

And I get it. I think a lot of people didn't want to work for Eric Adams and his administration for obvious enough reasons. But the city workforce is continuing to get older and older, as I'm sure you know much better than me. How are you thinking about addressing the aging workforce, and what are we doing to make sure that we have the next generation ready to, you know, take the baton and in areas where we're really dependent on the knowledge and expertise of older workers?

Yeah, that's a great question. You know, as I mentioned in my testimony, we're invested in attracting young people to city government, utilizing, you know, new modes of operation like social media to get, you know, folks excited about civil service. We also— Sending you out with signs. on— That's right. Like, our commissioner's out there, boots on the ground, making it happen every day.

Um, and, you know, getting us all charged up about, you know, what the future offers. Um, but things like, you know, the, the pathway programs that we're here talking about, the fee waivers for high schoolers and, um, first-time test takers, um, expanding internships and apprenticeships— these are all things or strategies that we think could help us engage, you know, the next wave of civil servants.

That's great. And I think that I love— I've loved seeing the commissioner out there, and with Commissioner Richards and otherwise, just trying to bring more people into the city workforce. Internship models— and Chair De La Rosa had— a previous chair of this committee, De La Rosa, had wonderful legislation that it's great to see this administration implementing around the internship model.

I think that You know, when I have had a chance to read the workforce profile report, which I feel like is always delayed, so I hope— when was the last one released? We're one fiscal year behind. And, you know, when I saw you come in, Councilmember Arresta, I knew you were going to ask about it. I know, you were thinking it.

We're working on it. I love the workforce profile report, one of the great reports of city government. But what it highlights in particular is where we have those gaps of where people are aging out that we need to be recruiting for. So it's not just recruiting across the board, it's in that targeted way of where do we really need help.

Could I do one more question? and then I'll shut up? Yes. Thank you so much. The last thing I wanted to ask is just kind of, I really feel that DCAS should be measuring itself and we should be holding you all accountable from the time a test is posted until the time somebody is hired. And we need to be thinking about that kind of global lifecycle from posted, you know, from kind of when, from exam to hiring.

And I know you're not in control of every step of that process. I get it. But you are the closest thing we have to, as the Deputy Commissioner for Talent, right? Like, as the person thinking globally about how do we make these systems work better. And I really hope that as you think about the MMR moving forward, as we think about holding ourselves accountable to do a better job at streamlining this process, we can lay out what that timeline looks like from beginning to end, because— It's not just the pieces in DCAS's control.

We need to hold the agencies accountable too, and I know you bring in the HR representatives. I know you do your best to provide guidance and input to help them do their jobs better, but we should be— have really good data that shows us that HPD is actually doing a great job with DCAS's help, but that DOHMH is pooping the bed, or whatever it may be.

We need to see that data, and we need to hold ourselves accountable from beginning to end to understand where in the process Are we having our greatest obstacles? Where are the challenges? Have you thought about a kind of global accountability from exam posting to hiring dates across the board for how we can do a better job of holding agencies and titles, you know, accountable in their hiring of individual titles?

Yes. The short answer is yes. We are looking at that. We're in the initial stages of those conversations, and it is challenging to track what you're describing. only because we work in a decentralized environment and there's data that, you know, we just don't have access to. But we agree that that is something that we need to focus on and better track.

And this is where we need leadership from City Hall. I know that you guys have the right intentions at DCAS and want to make this work, but we need City Hall to tell the agencies you all need to work with them and you need to provide this information. When we had sexual harassment issues where DCAS was in the de Blasio administration, where DCAS was that centralized force, City Hall said to the agencies, you need to provide this data, you need to work together, and it works.

And so we just need that same level of accountability here. Chair, as always, thank you very much. I really appreciate the chance to go a little bit over, and thank you, Deputy Commissioner Porter and team, for the chance to ask some questions today.

Thank you, Councilmember Ressler. I gotta go to the Bronx. Thank you. Yeah, on that particular issue of— it seems like the agencies are siloed when it comes to hiring. Is that correct? Yes, each agency is responsible. They have their own HR departments and they're responsible for recruiting and hiring. And we're here to support them. you know, through examinations and, you know, other methods, our small but mighty Office of Citywide Recruitment, and, you know, just helping them navigate and, you know, to help amplify immediate hiring needs they may have.

So essentially, you wait for them to say, hey, we need to hire 20 people in this hard-to-recruit title, and then what— You know, what steps do you take to make sure that that happens? So, that's in some instances. There are, you know, many different ways for agencies to recruit and hire. There are different title classifications that have different rules and regulations, but the foundation of the city's civil service system are competitive titles that require examination, and that's why we, you know, administer so many exams a year, on average about 200.

And that's the opportunity for agencies to communicate to DCAS any immediate or future hiring needs that we should be helping them to prepare for. But in the, in the mix of that, if anything comes up, you know, we're always there to support them by amplifying, by, you know, even hosting special hiring events to help, you know, bring folks into a centralized location and, you know, do on-the-spot hiring.

So, there are many different strategies that we use to support agencies, their HR shops, but exams by far is the cornerstone of the system.

So, back to the Civil Service Pathways Fellowship. In 2026, DCAS added a new career track to the fellowship offerings, which is customer service and community engagement. Can you tell us Can you tell us more about that career track? Yes. So, one of the things that we do when we are looking at the programs that we offer and where the city's needs are, and, you know, the Civil Service Pathway Fellowship is one of the ways that we address, like, the hard-to-recruit titles or the areas where we need to have a pathway into those vacancies.

And so, through conversations with agencies, and their needs, we learned that there was a need to have something that is specific to folks that are engaged in outreach, community outreach, community engagement. And so we worked with our internal partners to make sure that there was an opportunity for individuals who were specifically going to school or are interested in working in those pathways have an opportunity to participate in the fellowship and eventually, you know, have opportunities to be hired full-time into those positions.

And you stated that since the program's launch in 2019, over 75% of fellows that have completed the Civil Service Pathways Fellowship transitioned into full-time employment. Do you track separate data that speaks to how many fellows have successfully completed the fellowship but did not pursue employment with the city, and where— Do you know where those fellows end up?

So we know that for the 78% that participated, that transitioned into a full-time position. For those that didn't complete the fellowship, they may have gone into another position across city agencies, or they may have left city government completely. And so that's one of the things that we are looking at and seeing the retention rate for folks that are interested in continuing their government career.

I mean, we're seeing that number increase as we go through the different cohorts. And what is the annual attrition rate of civil service— of the Civil Service Pathways Program for this current cohort and previous cohorts? What percent of fellows finish the program? And what are the main barriers to completion of the program? So, the way the program is set up, it's a 2-year program.

So, for the cohort that just started this year, normally the attrition would be— and it's just regular employment, right? As you get into a position, there's opportunities for professional development where a person may not be directly aligned with the vacancy that they're in. Or the person may choose to self-select out of the program. So that's where we'll see the transition, where a person may no longer participate in the program.

But for the programs that have— the cohorts that have completed, we have up to just 76 have transitioned into— 76% have transitioned into a full-time position, where 33%, those who transferred, have reached permanent status. So it really depends. But most of the folks that are participating and complete are going into full-time positions. But my question's a little bit different.

How many of those who enter the program actually— what percentage actually complete the program? I understand that people that complete the program, 76% of them stay in civil service or in public service. So, for program completion— How many— you know, what percentage actually completes the program, finishes the 2 years? Yeah. So, that's the completion. So, the completion is that the person ended at 2 years and then they go into full-time positions.

We don't really see folks that complete the program— that's the last sentence, right? The people that complete the program and then decide, hey, I no longer want to stay within city government. So, it's going to be roughly the same percentage. Okay. And what do you think— almost a quarter of the program completers do not enter city government.

Why do you think the program completers don't— a quarter of them don't enter city government? I'm sorry, can you repeat the question for me, please? Why do you think it's almost a quarter of the program completers do not enter city government? Do you know why? Do you have an understanding why? Do you survey them? Like— We— it could be for a variety of employment reasons, right?

Sometimes individuals are going into a particular position or working with particular agencies, so sometimes, just like any career move that individuals make, they may decide that this position isn't right for them, or because of the employment practices and the employment— the needs of the agency, it may be that the person is not ideal for that position. position.

We don't currently survey the individuals that leave the program. That is something that we can definitely look into to find out exactly why it is that they're leaving the program. How often do fellows move into full-time city employment in the agency in which they held their fellowship? Majority of the movements that we have is moving into a full-time position with the agency.

If fellows elect to pursue employment with a different agency, how is their placement determined? Do they do that on their own? Do they get assistance from the agency, from DCAS? If a fellow wants to— who completes the program wants to apply for a different vacancy, they'll go through the normal recruitment process where they can apply and interview for that vacancy.

And are open roles identified by agencies and approved by OMB prior to the beginning of the fellowship to ensure that all fellows are able to move into full-time employment if they want to? Absolutely. That is one of the main criteria of the program. We want to make sure that there is a full-time vacancy that the person can go into.

With the Public Service Corps program in FY 2025, 106 In FY '25, 66 PSC interns were placed across 7 agencies. In FY 2026, 122 PSC interns— trending in the right direction— interns were placed across 13 agencies. What work did DCAS undertake to expand the number of agencies that host interns and to increase the total number of interns?

Yes, and that's the part of the— amplify that even more? Yes, that's a part of the exciting work that we do. So, separately, we had within DCAS the Public Service Corps program, internships and fellowship teams, and the recruitment teams were separate, under separate units. And so, we brought them under the same umbrella so that way we can be more strategic in the outreach that we're doing.

We can amplify those programs a little bit more. Within the Public Service Corps, we really take a look at what our activities are, like our standard operating procedures, and figure out what areas we can improve in. And then we also did targeted outreach to agencies, to schools. We had information sessions, our team go out to work with the federal work study individuals at respective schools.

And so, we did a lot of the, the boots on the ground activity to make sure that we were able to bring individuals on. We also held our Public Service Corps Expo. So, twice a year, we gather agencies that are interested in hiring interns, and we bring them in. and they can interview and hire on the spot.

And we saw that that resulted in a lot of interns being hired to grow the program. Do you have plans to expand that? Oh, absolutely. We, we are celebrating 60 years next month. And so, we are also looking at how we're amplifying how we reach Public Service Corps individuals that are qualified for the program and expanding how agencies participate.

So, that is one of our main goals that we're working towards this year. I want to recognize that we've been joined by Councilmember Narcisse. I'm going to ask one more question, then I'll turn it over to my colleague to see if she has any questions. What are DCAS's goals for the program in the future? I see that You've ex— you have expanded.

Do you have any specific goals for the future of this program? Yes. So, what we're looking at is how do we build pathways, right? So, the Civil Service Pathways Program directly leads into a full-time position. We're looking at how do we carry that out for the other programs. So, for a Public Service Corps, it could be a short-term.

A person may only be qualified for it because of the federal work-study part of it. for one semester. So, we worked with them to say, can they go into a summer internship program? Somebody that's participating in a summer internship, can they then come back on as a PSE or later on transfer into— not transfer, but participate in the Civil Service Pathway Fellowship?

So, we're trying to build out those clear pathways and educate the individuals that are participating in those programs so they know what pathways they can take if they have a keen interest in staying in city government. government. So, we're trying to just build that out more robustly. Um, over the last 5 years, how many PSE interns entered into civil service after graduating college?

So, that number is a little bit difficult to track just because of the nature of the program. As I mentioned, somebody may just be with us for a semester because that's all their grant allowed them to stay, or they may come back and alternate between the timelines. So, we don't really get a We don't really know when they graduate.

We don't really know if they're going to qualify to participate again. And so that's why we're focusing on how do we build that continuation where even if they're not participating in Public Service Corps, they still have an opportunity to work for city government in the other programs that we have. Yeah. Is there any thought to figuring out a way to track that?

Because I think it's super important to understand the the true impact of this program in the long term. Yep, absolutely. Has the federal government's opposition to diversity and equity policies impacted the demographics of recent classes of PSC interns, and are there any changes to federal work-study eligibility surrounding visas and citizenship status that have changed the population of students you are able to take in as part of the PSC program?

From our viewpoint, we haven't seen any change. As you've noticed, we've increased the number of people that are participating in the program, and so we continue to work with the schools to engage those folks that are qualified. So on our end, we haven't seen any changes. Okay, thank you.

Turn it over to Councilmember Narcisse if you have any questions. Good morning, and thank you, Chair. Thank you for being here. Usually I'm not late, but I had to apologize for that because 1199 made history today with the CityPAC workers, and as a nurse, I feel like it was imperative for me to be present for them. So that's my apology.

So in civil service, we know we're very much interested around New York City, that's kind of where you can move yourself from poverty to middle class. So we're very much interested, and I'm sure Chair been actually on point with those questions because we want to make sure everyone have the opportunity to elevate yourself in New York City as much as we can.

How many exam fees? Probably you probably asked it. If I have to repeat your question because I'm interested, I apologize for that too. How many exam fee waivers were granted last year, and is the waiver process simple— simply enough that people actually use it, or are applicants paying fees they should not have to before? So, we— I can get back to you with the actual number of fee waivers that were issued last year, but it's roughly about 25 to 30% of the applicants who apply for civil service exam, request the waiver.

There are many different waivers that are offered. Veterans, folks who receive Social Security insurance, public assistance, if you're unemployed, you can take a free exam. And most recently, in July of this year, we implemented 2 new fee waivers as a part of Local Law 57, which offers fee waivers for high school students and first-time test takers. And so for those 2 that I just mentioned, the latter, we have seen an increase in use, but it's roughly about 30% of test takers.

Okay. How many veterans preference credits were applied last year and how is DCAS making sure veterans know they are eligible? Thank you for that question. So the availability of veterans credits, it's embedded in all of our marketing materials. So it's in our notice of Exam, it's on DCAS's website, it's in our special circumstances guides. It's also information that can be amplified through the Department of Veterans Affairs.

So, you know, we make an effort to ensure that all test takers are aware of the many different fee waivers and credits that may be available to them. Are you utilizing us as your ally to push? Because I'm very big when it comes to veterans. Because you'll be surprised how many veterans in New York City don't, I mean, don't know what kind of support they can get still up to now, to today.

So, if we can utilize our services, because we each represent different districts, that we can be very helpful to make sure people know. And thank you too, because you've been present in my office to support for fair different things that we've been doing. I'm so appreciative of you. Thank you. of your service. After someone is reached on the list, how long does it take to actually start the job?

Where are the biggest delays? Background checks, medical exam, or agency's paperwork? So, that's a great question. You know, at DCAS, we're here to support agency hiring needs through the administration of examination. And once the scoring process is complete and that exam is ready for agency use, It's really dependent upon the agency's hiring need to request that list from DCAS to start their internal inboarding, onboarding process.

You know, we work in a decentralized environment, so each agency has their own HR department that manages the actual hiring of the candidate. Mm-hmm. So, you know, it's kind of difficult for us to, like, pinpoint exactly where there may be, you know, situations at the agency level. But at DCAS, we are working to streamline and expedite the examination process as much as possible.

And we're here to support agencies in the event that they have immediate— an immediate hiring need where they need DCAS support to either attract candidates and/or to support, you know, a streamlined interview process. We support them in that way. But the way I see it in my brain, So, if I'm sending you folks to work for you, so at least I need to know what's up.

If they're staying, I need to know where they're going and keeping track. I know it may be difficult, but I'm just thinking. Yeah, we track how the agencies are using the actual civil service list, but the onboarding process, that's happening at the agency level. So, the interviewing and the, you know, the issuance of So, in terms of onboarding documentation, the investigative process, all of that happens at the agency level.

Yeah. Thank you. You're welcome. Which job have the highest turnover in the first 2 years? Do you know by any chance? And what do exit interviews say about why the people leave? Because if leaving the agencies or whatever, don't— So, we don't— I don't have that particular number for you here today, but we may be able to provide information about the exit interviews.

Do we have— Yes. For the exit interviews, we do have a survey that agencies issue, and then we produce a report on it. And so, a lot of it is sometimes the opportunities to grow within their career or not knowing how to navigate the career in city government after they've landed, or, you know, just having wanted to explore other opportunities outside of city government.

And so one of the things that we have is citywide career counselors where each agency will have a career counselor. And for anyone that's working in the agency will have access to learning more about how they can progress within their agencies or even across different agencies. First, I'm so happy that you're doing reaching out to our youth in high school and keep on collaborating with the high schools.

I mean, young folks know what's available instead of doing what they should not be doing. And then collaboration with our CUNY in our city is very helpful. So, and even the unions collaborate, let people know that that's just come to volunteer as a union. There's other things that are available for you in the City of New York.

Thank you, Chair, and thank you for your time. Keep on doing it. Thank you.

Thank you, Councilmember. Okay. We're headed to the homestretch. I'll stop you a little bit. No, no, no, not at all. You give— you actually give me a break from asking questions. On the youth apprenticeship civil service title, since the youth apprenticeship Civil Service Title Program was announced last November. How many youth apprentices have enrolled? So the Youth Apprenticeship Program is a great example of how DCAS collaborates with other city agencies to implement pathway programs.

So our main role in the Youth Apprenticeship Program was to help the Mayor's Office of Talent and the Department of Education create the title or the vehicle that is used for that particular program. So we don't have a direct number for you today because we don't manage the program. We just help to implement. Okay. So who manages the program?

It's a collaboration between the Mayor's Office of Talent and the Department of Education. Okay. You don't have any sense of what types of apprenticeships they're enrolled in or what apprenticeships are available through the program? So what I can say is that they— the Department of Education taps into their students to participate in the program. And DCAS's role, we do have a minor role, and Kaydianne, you can chime in, right?

We help to connect the students to city agencies that may, you know, have positions available that may be a good fit. So, if you have anything to add, Kaden, please jump in. And just that they have several different tracks. So, somebody may be in a project management track, or they may be interested in IT. So, within the youth apprentice title, they have different focus areas that they can participate in.

And I know that specifically because I have a couple of them on my team, but they have different tracks. That the Department of Ed and Education and their partner determine, like, where the needs are within the city so they can create that track. Okay. So you don't have any data— you don't track the data on this program at all?

It's all— We do not. Okay.

Collaboration with Small Business Services on hiring halls. I had the pleasure of attending The citywide disability career fair in Queens over the summer, where we saw a vast number of agencies who were there to conduct interviews and offer job placements. It was a great turnout for applicants seeking employment. What are the specific channels through which DCAS and SBS are advertising the date and time of these career fairs beyond public postings?

You want to take it? So, as you know, SBS is the one that manages those hiring events. We support in amplifying the information and participating when available. So, we share that information when available in our newsletters. We share them on our— we have a career— an event page on the DCAS job board. So, we'll post it there.

And then we also have the DCAS-specific recruitment page where we'll post information there. So we help to amplify the information as much as possible and then participate to share information about city jobs when possible. Since 2024, the Department of Small Business Services has facilitated hiring halls for New Yorkers and connected thousands of applicants with employment opportunities. Are there any city agencies that participate in these hiring halls?

We do know that there are a lot of city agencies that participate, but that is managed on the Okay. How frequently does DCAS meet with SBS and the Office for Talent and Workforce Development to collaborate on future hiring events and outreach? And do the 3 agencies, entities conduct recruitment separately, or are there examples of where all 3 are involved in public outreach together?

So, we work with all— both SBS and Talent separately. For Talent, we engage with the Career Pathways Program. That's the main part of the work that they do. So, how can we enhance the programs that we have? How can we think about other opportunities for the programs? With SBS, we work with them in a couple of different ways, which we just mentioned with the hiring events.

We're helping to amplify the information. We may be there providing providing information sessions during their actual career fair. And then we also work with SBS where we go to the Workforce One Center like 8 times a month, whether it's in person or virtually, to make sure that we're reaching their population. So depending— and I know SBS, very excitingly, they've opened a new job center.

And so we're in conversations with them now about how we can partner to further amplify and reach individuals that are interested in city government and agency partnership as well? There are over 130 career and technical education schools in New York City that train participants in a variety of different career clusters ranging from healthcare and human services to digital technology to agriculture.

These CTE schools help build the critical career readiness skills, provide financial literacy courses, and can partner students with higher education and employment opportunities. Are these CTE schools considered a civil service pathway that is eligible to be counted as one of DCAS's Civil Service Ambassador Program outreach? Absolutely. We try as much as possible to reach the CTE schools.

We also, as a part of DOE's Career Discovery Week, where we had roughly 90 individuals from all of these— from the CTE schools come down to DCAS and learn more about other city agencies and also just the process for getting jobs with city government. So, we do a lot of engagement with them. Do you have specific data on the CTE programs that you work with or visited?

We can get back to you on the data with that. We saw that in FY 2025, DCAS engaged in outreach events at just 4 trade schools. Could you please share which trade schools those were and whether those schools were selected for the specific purpose of targeting prospective applicants who were learning skills that could help fill crucial roles in the municipal workforce?

I'll have to have the team check our list of events to determine exactly which schools we participate in. we worked with. But one of the things that we try to do is if we know that, for example, there's an automotive service worker exam that's coming up, we try to target our outreach to a trade school that does— that deals with automotive work.

And so, we try to be strategic in the outreach that we're doing based on the agency's needs and the exams that are coming up.

Okay. Any other questions? Anybody? No? Good. Okay. I told you we were in the home stretch. Thank you so much for your testimony today. And hope to continue to work with you to make civil service more robust. I came out of civil service. I was a caseworker for the City of New York many, many years ago before I went to work for the union.

And I was a member of the Social Service Employees Union. I got to give them a shout out. Social Service Employees Union Local 371, which is another, you know, it's another job that's hard to fill and that has high turnover. So we need to figure— that's something that we really have to figure out. Because people burn out very quickly in some of those jobs.

But thank you so much again for your testimony today. Thank you, Chair. And of course, I appreciate you in my office. Yeah. I love you coming. Okay. Yeah, I know. We should have we should have a job fair. Like, thank you. Yeah, that's why their programs are the high school programs are so important. Reach out to SBS and the DOE and all those folks because.

Okay.

I will now open the floor for public testimony. Before we begin, I remind members of the public that this is a formal government proceeding. And that decorum shall be observed at all times. As such, members of the public shall remain silent at all times. The witness table is reserved for people who wish to testify. No video recording or photography is allowed from the witness table.

Further, members of the public may not present audio or video recordings as testimony, but may submit transcripts of such recordings to the sergeant-at-arms For inclusion in the hearing record. If you wish to speak at today's hearing, please fill out an appearance card with the sergeant-at-arms and wait for your name to be called. Once you have been recognized, you will have 2 minutes to speak on today's oversight topic of municipal recruitment strategies and civil service pathways.

If you have a written statement or additional written testimony you wish to submit for the record, please provide a copy of that testimony to the sergeant-at-arms. At arms, you may also email written testimony to testimony@council.nyc.gov within 72 hours of this hearing. Audio and video recordings will not be accepted. Is there anybody? Okay. So please come up when I call your name for the first panel.

Mike Hickey. Rebecca Haywood. Amari DuJardin. Catherine Vaughn. Okay. Who wants to start first? I can, I can go first. You can go first? Okay, perfect. Oh, thank you, Committee Chair.

I'm Michael Hickey, Chief of Strategy and Operations for Citizens NYC, but I'm actually here to talk to you about my work as a former leader at the New York City Public Schools, where I helped to start up the community schools team and led the students in temporary housing team. Yeah, so this is more of my direct experience, lived experience with civil service.

Thank you. I wanted to start by saying that as a hiring manager overseeing hundreds of personnel, operating with dozens of vacancies at any given moment, I was never trained on how civil service works. I was never offered an explainer or tutorial, never invited to a webinar or onboarding session. I was never given a clear point of contact in my own agency or at DCAS or any other city entity.

Thank you. And everything I learned about civil service, I learned by reverse engineering and crowdsourcing an understanding of this Byzantine and Kafkaesque process. My team worked with homeless families, helping families get access to food, counseling, school supplies. It was very complex, specialized, trauma-informed work. The way a hiring process For our team, it went like this. We would identify a vacancy, a title.

We would assign headcount and budget. And then we'd wait, in my case, a year or more for a list to open up. We'd wait several more months before the hiring pool began. We would sit all day in a room with dozens of other hiring managers. We would all get to ask one question of an employee, and then we would have to make a decision then and there about whether or not we're going to make an offer.

To that candidate. We would be, you know, obviously this rule of 3 applies. So either take the warm body that's in front of you, whether they're qualified or not, or you wait until hopefully someone comes along. So obviously, this is a really difficult, traumatizing process for someone that's trying to work with vulnerable families and feeling constantly like you're unable to meet the needs those families because they don't have the trained personnel to do so.

Those are limitations that were clearly set by the process of civil service itself rather than the ability to find candidates. Thank you. I'm sorry? I have your testimony. Yes, it includes recommendations. Thank you so much. You're welcome. Next.

Yes, um, I don't have a hard copy of my testimony, but I will share it after the fact. My name is Rebecca Haywood. Good afternoon. I'm here today to speak both as a former New York City public servant and as the project lead for DCAS's 2019 citywide hiring assessment. As a former DCAS employee, it was the first comprehensive user-centered review of the city's civil service and hiring process for non-uniform titles, and the work has never been made public.

Today, I run an organization where I advise governments nationally on civil service modernization and digital transformation and talk with candidates every day who are trying to get city jobs. The issue that we're trying to look at is we're trying to make incremental change to a system that needs an overhaul. It makes or breaks the city's ability to deliver key services, and we cannot keep using the same playbook and expecting different results.

There's a lot of great work going on at DCAS, but there's also— it's a lot of these small incremental changes. There's a couple of things that I want to highlight that have stuck with me from what we learned talking to over 10,000 prospective employees and current city staff back in 2019 about what the true challenges are and how we can address them.

The first is really around information. We've talked a lot today about it's not a process that people understand. It uses jargon and language that most New Yorkers cannot talk about. And we found actually that most city employees who took an exam before they were hired already had a close friend or family member who already worked for the city.

It's exclusionary in a different way. Because the exams are only offered to typically once every 5 years or more. We're seeing lists established for 5, 6, 7 years now. If you miss your opportunity, you miss out and the city misses out on a potential highly skilled employee. Like Mike said, staff report learning from their colleagues. There's a lot of other things.

And the last thing I'll hit on, Is really that we need to be clear about the data and information that we use, how we talk about it in plain language, how we use and provide the data to agencies, to hiring managers, and make sure that things like the list of civil service titles and whether or not you can qualify for them are made available to the public.

It's currently only available on the city's intranet. I have a list of recommendations and other information that I will share via email, but look forward to hearing more about what the council is able to, to move forward on this topic.

Thank you. Good morning, Chair Aldebal. My name is Catherine Vaughn, and I'm the co-founder and co-executive director of Abundance New York. We believe the city can and should make it easier, faster, cheaper, and fairer to build and deliver what New workers want. And so we push for housing, for more vibrant public transit and public space, for renewable energy, and for more effective government delivery of all of the above.

We applaud the work the administration and DCAS are doing to expand access to public sector job opportunities, from the Ambassadors Program to youth apprenticeships and internships, to the recent decision to waive civil service exam fees for high school students and first-time test takers. We also believe that these measures must be paired with additional reforms to remove bottlenecks and barriers from the entire recruitment and application experience.

Free civil service exams keep money in applicants' pockets, but the largest cost they face is time. The months between when exams are offered, or years, the year it takes to get exam results, the months required as hiring managers offer interviews one by one to exam scorers who might no longer be looking for jobs, the 9 months of unpaid onboarding time between when a provisional offer is made and when an offeree is actually able to start work.

In addition to significant time costs, Prospective civil servants face additional barriers to finding meaningful careers within the city. Titles and job descriptions are outdated and opaque. Information on the hiring process is scattered across different websites, and data on different agencies' time to hire is unavailable. As you review the city's work to recruit diverse talent to its workforce, we urge you to consider the entire application process from soup to nuts and to set ambitious goals around reducing agencies' time to hire and vacancy rates.

We propose a variety of categories, which you can— I'll share my written testimony with you afterward, but First, ensure that job titles and descriptions reflect the actual work employees are doing and that these roles, along with hiring process details and exam schedules, are posted in plain language. Many roles have not had updated descriptions in years or even decades, resulting in such outdated titles as Computer Associate.

Information about which roles require exams is hard to find. And then I'll just quickly go over— I think the second is working aggressively to cut evaluation and hiring timelines, as you as you're questioning, really pushed into. This could include rethinking when exams are needed, such as for licensed positions where there's already stringent state-run licensing processes. Then also where civil service exams are still appropriate, thinking about how to speed up through continuous recruitment and exam schedules, choosing to deliver exams via structured interview and moving from the rule of 3 to banded scoring.

And then I'll finally underscore the role of transparency in terms of publishing time to hire across agencies, which could, you know, both help applicants as they try to get a sense of what they should expect from the process and also identify areas for improvement within and across agencies. Thank you very much.

Good morning, Chair Alibol and staff. My name is Amory Dujardin, and I'm the public policy manager at Citizens Union. A report by the Five Borough Institute at Citizens Union, Solving the Staffing Crisis, took a deep dive into city— into what City Hall can do to retain and recruit talent, including creative solutions like the programs mentioned here today.

We applaud the city for such efforts, but we can go further. Taking an exam, applying for that job, going through interviews, receiving an offer, and onboarding often takes over a year. This is not a sustainable recruitment strategy for a modern city. We must speed up the hiring timeline and make it easier to apply. First, adopt band scoring to replace the rule of 3.

When the city hires, it must find 3 candidates willing to be hired from a ranked list of those who pass the civil service exam, and hiring managers must call through that list in ranked order. Calling through can take ages. Instead, band scoring ranks candidates into tiers such as outstanding, well qualified, and qualified, and allows managers to choose candidates from the top tier based on fit rather than ranked order.

Another option is for the city to ask the State Civil Service Commission to remove exam requirements for licensed roles, as Katherine mentioned, where state licensing processes already exist, like for engineers, commercial drivers, or nurses. Such a change would only require approval from the commission. Additionally, the city should also start being transparent with candidates, publish expected timelines for exam results and from hire to start date, Find ways to provide other updates.

The city's silence, or current silence, deters candidates from engaging. We also need to simplify the application process by establishing plain language standards across all communications and redesigning the civil service and jobs website, an idea that Rebecca mentioned. Current language is confusing. It would also help if the city built a tool that lets job seekers search for jobs they are eligible for.

Right now, candidates have the easiest time applying if they have close friends or family who are civil servants, which creates a problem where only those with insider knowledge apply. These are all ideas the city can take now, and we have more if anyone wants to discuss them further. Thank you for the opportunity to testify. I'm happy to try to answer any questions.

Thank you. Thank you so much for your testimony. do look forward to working with you all. I know, Catherine. You know, it's— I've been against the 1-in-3 rule before. Yeah. I mean, I agree that, you know, this is— there are a lot of parts of the system that are antiquated. There are some things that we have to go through the state, you know, the state has to make changes and there's some things that we can implement now.

What are some of the things that the city— and I'll ask anybody— what are some of the things that the city can implement, that you think the city can implement now without having to go through the state process? I also agree on the licensing. If people already have to go through a licensing process, That's why I go through the whole civil service exam process.

I totally agree with a lot of what you have said, but I do want to know from your perspective what the city can do and what we can do as city council to try to move some of these things forward. Thank you for that question. There's a lot actually that the city can do. I'll share some and then invite others to join in.

One of the easiest and most straightforward things that DCAS can do on its own is really think about the language that it uses, introduce and mandate plain language standards that actually get implemented for all sources of information, whether it's going to external applicants, whether it's going to existing city employees, to make sure that every New Yorker understands civil service.

I think if you go to the street right now and ask people what is civil service, most people even walking around this district wouldn't necessarily know. Another thing that can be done is specifically design materials with hiring managers in mind. They play an outsized role in bringing staff into the process in partnership with HR. It's important to recognize the role that they do play and make sure that they're prepared to participate and understand all of the options available to them.

Decat. Katrina mentioned some of the social media push and other types of things, which is a great start, but really meeting New Yorkers where they're at through other types of information that isn't self-selecting and things that people see every day. I'll quickly go through a couple others. We don't have any mechanisms right now for agencies to share strong candidates that apply to one job, particularly noncompetitive roles with other agencies.

We're seeing this come up with the marketing push that was done for the Public Interest Technology, the PIT crews at OIT. There are hundreds of other technology vacancies that don't get that same level of marketing. The 4,000+ candidates for those 35 roles aren't going to be able to be accessed by other agencies. So creating mechanisms there. Others have talked a lot about mandate real timelines, both publishing true hiring timelines and identifying the actual bottlenecks that are holding them up regardless of agency.

And then finally adopting things like continuous recruitment, band scoring, and alternative evaluation methods like Structured interviews when they're appropriate can both maintain the principles of merit and fitness while speeding up hiring and recognizing that the job market across the city has changed and that city career paths and job availability needs to change along with it. Thank you.

Yeah, let me just say I would say first that the 4 of us all know each other. We've actually spent a lot of time kicking around. We have a giant spreadsheet, right? And actually went through that to look for ideas that are within the power of the city to enact, that have low cost associated with them, and that actually in many cases have a way to mitigate the political risks or challenges associated with the changes.

Those are all important variables. So The things you're hearing us talk about today reflect some of our thinking about what's actionable by the city. And a lot of it comes down to start with clarification. It's a complex process. Most people don't understand it. I worked for the city for almost 10 years and had to reverse engineer my way into understanding it, like as an investigative journalist practically.

So I think we can do a lot to make it more approachable. Then we can actually begin to have an honest conversation With our entire workforce about what reform would look like and actually have informed advocates who are hiring managers who are part of that process to inform it. The things that we're talking about today, we believe, are common sense solutions.

So, I'll mention 2 specifics that Rebecca didn't call out. Aligning OMB with the posting authority that's already granted to an agency so that we're not going through another round of approval from OMB for an unnecessary review. And that mention of, you know, practical civil service training for all hiring managers and HR managers across the city. I feel like I could design a really, really good training for people to understand in a practical manner what this thing is and how you interact with it.

I would be more than happy to offer that guidance to my colleagues at DCAS or anywhere else in the city. I think Mike and Rebecca have covered a lot, and as we've mentioned, we would love to— we have a whole spreadsheet on this stuff, and I think it would take longer than the testimony to go over all those things.

But as they've both mentioned, you know, putting pressure on the mayoral administration to take these actions would be certainly recommended by us. I also know that there are ongoing contract negotiations you know, right now between the city and unions. And one way to tackle a lengthy list like this would be to establish a labor-management committee as a result of those contract negotiations.

So, you know, in, if in the short time before a contract is probably signed, that can be advocated for, we would certainly welcome it. Thank you. Sorry. I don't have much to add beyond what the 3 of them already said. And we can maybe try to put some of what's in the spreadsheet together in something digestible for your committee.

One of our suggestions actually related to the COGE process was to develop once every 5 years or once every 4 years of the new mayoral administration, a workforce plan that's similar to the capital planning process that goes into, for each of the agencies, what their 5-year outlook is and the changing needs of their workforce, which I think also speaks to Councilmember Ressler's questions about an aging workforce and the need to really plan out around turnover.

Then to identify, cross-reference that against data around time to hire and vacancies to identify where do elements of this process need to change. I think many elements can be changed at the city level. Certainly, there are some laws that would need to change at the state level, but I think in our spreadsheet, we have many, many rows of DCAS only or the administration only could change this.

But I think that part of the issue is the lack of centralized data to really demonstrate where the problems are most severe. I think also to Councilmember Hudson's point, we're the only 4 people testifying right now. There might be a few others, but There's not as much of a constituency for this type of change, and yet we see the direct linkage between vacancies and the time it takes to hire, and then the really, really important work done by civil servants on crises and emergencies that are happening in the city, whether it's Legionnaires or just getting people cash assistance on time, which we've done kind of a dismal job at.

And so I think that there's also some work to do to really demonstrate the tie between the experiences that New Yorkers are having that are enabled by government and the bottlenecks and kind of the delays that are written into our policies that are kind of required as part of the process and that don't need to be.

Thank you so much. I really appreciate your testimony, and I look forward to getting that spreadsheet. I mean, it certainly will assist our committee in thinking through what we can do to, you know, move civil service in a more modern direction, which is something that I think is one of my primary concerns, especially as chair of this committee.

And again, thank you so much for your thoughts And your experiences.

Are there any other folks that want to testify? Okay. Seeing no one else in the chamber, is anyone on Zoom? No one on Zoom. Okay. So, all right. So seeing that there is no one going to testify, again, I want to remind folks if you are on Zoom, that you can submit your written testimony to testimony@council.nyc.gov within 72 hours of this hearing.

And we thank the administration and, and the public for attending this hearing to share your thoughts. And we look forward to following up on these issues. With that, the hearing is now adjourned. Thank you, Chair.