Committee on Veterans

Good morning and welcome to today's New York City Council hearing from the Committee of Veterans joined with the Committee on General Welfare. At this time, I'd like to remind everyone to please silence their electronic devices, and at no point is anyone to approach the dais. Chairs, we're ready to begin. Thank you.

Hello everyone, I am Councilmember Frank Morano. I have the privilege of being the chair of the Committee on Veterans, and this is my kind of hearing. Uh, not only do I love to see a packed house, uh, both at the testimony table and, um, not an available seat to be had in the crowd, which hopefully means we'll have a lot of members of the public testifying.

I'm also hoping we'll have a lot of folks testifying on Zoom, but You know, when I sought to have this chairmanship, I really sought to do it because I thought this would be a position where I could really help a lot of people, particularly people who don't get the help that they deserve from the city, the state, and the federal government, in spite of the fact that they're still the first to help others.

So I'm excited about this, and I'm particularly excited that it is a joint committee hearing with the Committee on General Welfare. I'm joined by my colleague, Councilmember Crystal Hudson, Chair of the Committee on General Welfare, and we're doing this joint oversight hearing on one of the most important issues facing New York today, and that's the issue of veteran homelessness in New York City.

Thank you for joining us to discuss this important topic. I was so eager to co-chair this hearing with Councilmember Hudson, not only because of my respect for her as a councilmember, but because We do not see this— the world the same way. We come from different political parties, different ideologies, different boroughs, different genders. If there's a difference chart, we're just about on a different page when it comes to everything.

But we're on the same page when it comes to the importance of needing to do something about veteran homelessness. And in addition to hopefully getting a lot of great ideas in terms of future legislation, in addition to shining a light on some things that need to be shining a light on, in addition to enhancing our own edification of some real issues that veterans are facing and at the conditions at Borden Avenue specifically.

My hope is that by having 2 people like us who come from totally different corners of the world addressing this problem in a very real way and take it seriously, hopefully this is a wake-up call to the 8.5 million New Yorkers that might not be attuned to this issue, that we have 150,000 veterans 140,000 to 150,000 people that could really use help in this city.

And that's why I'm excited about this. Like many communities across the country, New York City continues to face a homelessness crisis driven by rising housing costs and a shortage of affordable housing, among other things. And our veterans are not immune to these challenges, and ensuring that those who served our country have access to stable housing remains a critical responsibility.

Now, the good news is New York City has made significant progress in reducing veteran homelessness over the past decade. In 2025, there were 697 homeless veterans in New York City. That's down from 1,558 homeless veterans in 2015. That's a 44% decrease. I can promise you I'm going to be working pretty hard on this issue until that number goes from 697 to zero.

There should— there's no excuse for veteran homelessness in New York City as far as I'm concerned. And the successes that we've had are due in part to the coordinated efforts of DVS, DSS, and their partners. We're going to hear from them all today. Veterans experiencing homelessness can access emergency shelter, transitional housing, rental assistance, case management, and permanent housing opportunities.

These services have helped many veterans move from homelessness to permanent housing and achieve long-term stability. However, between 2015 and— excuse me, between 2022 and 2025, the number of homeless veterans has increased a little bit. Since 2022, we have seen an increase from 482 to 297 individuals. while we're in a much better position from where we were 10 years ago, we're not in as good of a position as where we were 4 years ago.

What's going on? What's driving that? Why do we have more homeless veterans now than we did in 2022? And more importantly, what can we do about it? So this increase is raising a lot of important questions about whether existing housing resources, supportive services, and homelessness prevention efforts are keeping pace with current needs. Specifically, we are going to be diving headfirst into what's going on over at the Borden Avenue Veterans Shelter.

Councilmember Hudson has been there. I've been there. Councilmember Wong has been there. I know a number of members of the committee and a number of councilmembers who are not on my committee have been there, and we all have independent observations, and we're going to be posing the questions about what we observed to all the folks that you're going to hear from today.

There's also a whole lot of uncertainty surrounding federal funding for the Borden Avenue Veterans Residence, and there are conflicting explanations that have been offered regarding the facility's exclusion from the latest VA grant and per diem funding awards. What's going on here? Is this something that's easily rectifiable? And beyond what's going on here, can we make sure that every veteran that had a bed that was paid for by this VA grant sees no disruption in that bed because of the city's decision to opt out of this grant.

So the city has committed to maintaining services. Questions remain about how lost federal funding is going to be replaced and what impact, if any, the funding dispute may have on operations. The discussion has also renewed attention to reported concerns about the conditions at the shelter and the quality of life for veterans living there. At the time when veterans' homelessness is rising, it's pretty important that there are absolutely no disruptions, not just to housing, but to the supportive services that veterans are seeking there.

And it's equally important that efforts to move veterans from shelter into permanent housing remain a priority regardless of the recent events affecting funding. And today's hearing is an opportunity to examine the effectiveness of the city's response, identifying remaining gaps, and ensure that veterans experiencing homelessness receive the necessary support they need to secure and maintain permanent housing. In addition to our oversight topic today, we will be hearing about a number of pieces of legislation.

Intro number 1050, sponsored by me, which would amend the administrative code in relation to alternative exemption for seriously disabled veterans. I'll talk more about that in a minute, and hopefully we'll hear some testimony from DBS and from the public about this. We're going to be hearing introduction number 0897, sponsored by Councilmember Felice, which would amend the administrative Code in relation to the Department of Social Services' response to certain severe winter weather conditions.

We're going to be hearing Resolution Number 0560, sponsored by Councilmember Palladino, which is calling on the federal government to enact the Fair Access to Co-ops for Veterans Act. And we're going to be hearing Resolution Number 0634, which I've also sponsored, which is seeking to recognize 501 veteran organizations and designate the week that includes November 11th annually as Veterans Organizations Awareness Week.

Before I conclude, I want to acknowledge Councilmember Hudson, Chair of the Committee on General Welfare, for working with me on this oversight hearing. And it's clear that she recognizes as much as I do how crucial it is to address the housing issues veterans face and the barriers to safe and stable shelter that a lot of people still experience.

I'd also like to thank the committee staff, Legislative Counsel Hannah Cohn, legislative analyst Raina Lee, legislative policy analyst Mahnoor Boot, Justin Campos, and Nina Rosenberg, senior financial analyst Sandra Gray, and community liaison Sebastian Neme for their hard work in preparing for this hearing. I'd also like to thank my staff for their work as we continue to serve our constituents and the city as a whole.

I'm looking forward to today's testimony and to strengthening support for veterans experiencing homelessness in New York City. I'll now turn things over to Chair Hudson to give her opening statement.

Thank you so much, Chair Marano. And you know, you went through a litany of differences that we have, but a couple similarities I will say. One, we're both parents, and your siblings live in my district, so you got some pretty smart siblings. I don't want to tell you who their favorite council member is. It's not me. Good morning, everyone.

My name is Crystal Hudson. I'm chair of the General Welfare Committee, and my pronouns are she/her. I want to welcome our veterans, their families, caregivers, service providers, and advocates who have joined us today. Your input is invaluable to the work of this committee and plays an important role in what we do moving forward. As most of— as of the most recent data released on veteran homelessness in New York City, there are approximately 700 homeless veterans in our city. including those that are living in shelter.

While this number represents a decline in the number of homeless veterans since 2014, it is still unacceptable. These are New Yorkers who valiantly served our nation at an enormous personal cost and who, upon returning home, are counting on their city to guide them into stable and permanent housing. Our aim with this hearing is to hear from the city's providers, veterans, and homeless advocates about how we can improve the services we provide to our veterans The hope is to have a productive, cordial discussion where we learn more about what is happening on the ground, what the council can do as an oversight and legislative body, and how we ultimately get our veterans housed.

I'd like to mention and thank Commissioner Dalton for joining me last night in our visit to the Borden Avenue Veterans Shelter. I think the commissioner has done a lot of work to address this specific shelter and the issues there. We spoke with a number of veterans at the shelter last night, and I think ultimately what we can all agree on is that they are not getting what they should as veterans.

And that's not even in terms of the specifics at the shelter, but broadly, culturally, I will say, in this country. I don't think we're providing veterans with all that they need and that they rightly deserve. I'd like to thank the administration for being here, Chair Murano and my colleagues for their constructive engagement, and advocates, veterans service organizations, and families for joining us.

I also want to thank committee staff for their work on this hearing. The names have already been mentioned, but I'll say them again: Hannah Cohn, Pnina Rosenberg, and Justin Campos. And I'd also like to thank my staff, Andrew Wright, Elica Ruantan, Demi Brown, and Maddie Moorhead. And with that, I'll return the mic back to Chair Murano. Thank you.

Thank you, Chair Hudson. I also was negligent in not acknowledging and thanking the man who's got the toughest job in city government, the executive director of the New York City Republican Conference, Peter Spencer, who's been a big help not just in this hearing but in everything that we do. I want to acknowledge several of my colleagues on the Veterans Committee that are here— Councilmember Wong, Councilmember De La Rosa, who people are still talking about from the incredible job that she did chairing these AI hearings, and Councilmember Vicki Palladino, who I have to tell you, in addition to representing more veterans in her district than all of the rest of us, she has really been the most vocal about the need for this committee to pursue joint hearings with other committees because of all the common areas that veteran issues go along with throughout the rest of the city.

And I have to tell you, this Hearing is largely a byproduct of her energy and her insistence that we do that. And I have to tell you, so far all of these joint hearings I've found to be incredibly informative and incredibly productive. So Councilmember Paldino, thank you for your advocacy for veterans. And before we begin, I would love for you to speak about your resolution, which I'm proud to sponsor.

Thank you, Frank. Thank you, Frank, and thank you to everybody who came out this morning. You know, the main argument is simple. Veterans served our country and should have the opportunity to use their VA home loan benefits to purchase a co-op or a condo, just as they would use— they use their benefits to purchase home loans. That's how my mother and father got their home.

My father was a World War II vet. And they got their loan through the veterans. I'd like to see, too, the expansion of homeownership opportunities, allowing eligible veterans, service members, and surviving spouses to use the VA-backed loans to purchase their co-ops. We need to address New York City's housing markets. Co-ops and condos make up a significant portion of New York City's housing market.

And can offer more affordable alternative to any other types of homes. Helping the veterans to build equality and equity, make it easier for eligible veterans to purchase a home, build financial stability, and put down roots in their communities. The bottom line here is veterans should not face unnecessary barriers to homeownership. Thank you. simply because they live in a city where co-ops are common.

This resolution calls on Congress and the President of the United States to advance legislation that expands access to homeownership and gives eligible veterans more housing options, particularly in New York City. So we call upon— you know, Grace Meng introduced a great bill. down in Washington. I have a terrific relationship with Congressman Meng, and I'd like to see this sped up through her work with me together at the state level.

So that's basically all I have to say about that.

Our veterans are not treated fairly. We know that. We visited Borden Avenue, and I have to say we're being very kind in our description of Borden Avenue. Borden Avenue is an absolute disgrace. And the idea that we only have the one homeless shelter here in Queens known as Borden Avenue, and it's in the condition that it's in, is shameful, and we should be ashamed of ourselves.

We passed a $126 million budget. You hear me say this at almost every committee hearing I talk at. We passed a $126 billion budget, and out of that budget, only $6.5 million goes to our veterans. So as a committee, we have a lot of work to do, and the first thing we need to do is stir up some real money, whether it comes from private entities.

But we need to reinvent how the veterans are going to be— how we could finance the veterans, because obviously the city is falling behind. We're going to get to a lot of that work today.

Okay, thank you, everybody. Thank you, Councilmember Palladino. I— before we hear from the administration, I also want to acknowledge my colleagues, Councilmember Wilson, Councilmember Nurse, Councilmember Councilmember Aviles, and Councilmember Ung, who are all here joining us as well. I'll now turn it over to our committee counsel to administer the oath to the witnesses from the administration. Good morning.

We will now hear testimony from the administration. Before we begin, I'll administer the affirmation, and panelists, if you could raise your right hand. I'll read the affirmation once and then ask each of you to individually respond. Do you affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth in your testimony before this committee and to respond honestly to council members' questions?

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay. Thank you. As a reminder to all of our witnesses, please state your name prior to testimony for the record. Thank you. Thank you. You may begin whenever you're ready.

Good morning, Chair Murano, Chair Hudson, and distinguished members of the Committees on Veterans and General Welfare. My name is Yesenia Mata, and I have the honor of serving as Commissioner of the New York City Department of Veterans Services. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today on the critical issue of veteran homelessness and to highlight the work our agency is doing to ensure that veterans and their families have access to safe, stable, and permanent housing.

I also want to take a moment to recognize the many individuals who, while they may not have served in uniform themselves, continue to stand alongside our veterans in service to them. From our city council members, government partners, and nonprofit organizations, to housing providers, advocates, and community members, their commitment reminds us that supporting those who have served is not solely the responsibility of veterans or any one agency.

It is a shared responsibility that requires all of us working together. As a soldier and a military spouse, I understand that service does not end when someone takes off the uniform. Neither should our commitment to the people who have served. Every veteran deserves the opportunity to live with dignity, stability, and a sense of belonging in the city they call home.

Housing is fundamental to that commitment. When we talk about veteran homelessness, we are not talking about a single experience or a single pathway into crisis. Some veterans are staying in shelter, others are facing eviction, struggling to pay rent, or living in unstable situations that may not immediately be visible. Some are navigating physical or mental health challenges disability, employment transitions, or complicated benefit systems.

Our responsibility is to see the whole person and intervene as early as possible.

That is the purpose of our Housing and Supportive Services team. DVS provides an end-to-end veteran-centered approach that begins with outreach, intake, and assessment, continues through housing navigation, applications, subsidy coordination, inspections, and lease follow-up. and extends into aftercare and housing retention. Our work is grounding— grounded in a Housing First-oriented, trauma-informed approach, recognizing that permanent housing is a foundation from which other aspects of stability can grow.

Veterans come to DVS through community partners, shelter providers, VA facilities, direct outreach, walk-ins, and referrals. It is important to our agency to meet veterans where they are at. For example, although the Borden Avenue Veterans Residence is not designated as a Veteran Resource Center under the New York City Charter, DVS maintains a presence to provide resources and services to residents.

No matter where a veteran may be, our staff works with each individual to understand their housing status, income, benefits, safety concerns, and immediate needs. Together, they develop an individualized housing plan. That plan may involve locating an apartment, arranging a viewing, gathering documentation, coordinating with a landlord, or identifying the subsidy best suited to the Veteran's circumstances. No single voucher or housing program meets every need.

DVS helps Veterans navigate pathways that include the Veteran-focused CCM voucher, CityFAPS, Section 8 administered through NYSHA or HPD, and HUD-VASH in partnership with the United States Department of Veterans Affairs. We also assist with documentation for one-shot deals when emergency financial assistance can help address arrears or other housing costs. Importantly, DBS does not independently control eligibility determination, inspection, payment, or approval.

Our role is to help the Veteran navigate those steps and keep the process moving across agencies.

We have seen meaningful progress according to our July 2026 VetStat reporting. DVS permanent housing placements grew from 55 in FY22 to 119 in FY23, 126 in FY24, 153 in FY25, and 209 in FY26. In FY26, our team also completed Completed 318 housing viewings and assisted with 231 affordable housing applications. These numbers represent individual Veterans taking steps toward greater stability and the sustained work staff and partners behind each placement.

But a placement is not the end of our responsibility. I want to emphasize this point. Giving a Veteran the keys to an apartment is a major milestone, but helping that Veteran keep those keys is just as important. A Veteran may still need help with benefits, recertification, employment, food, healthcare, or unexpected financial emergency. Without that continued support, a housing placement can remain fragile.

Our current aftercare framework includes scheduled follow-up contacts extending through 22 months after placement. Those contacts help staff identify rent or subsidy issues, housing conditions, safety concerns, and other threats to stability. In FY26, 702 Veterans answered an aftercare call, according to our July reporting. We are also examining ways to strengthen early follow-up and more consistently connect Veterans to the broader supports they need.

Any proposed enhancements remain subject to review and approval. Our existing policy remains in effect. Prevention must be part of the same conversation. When we identify a veteran at risk of losing housing, we can coordinate referrals for financial assistance, legal support, landlord engagement, benefits, and other services before the instability becomes homelessness. A successful housing system should be measured not only by how many people move into permanent housing, but also by how many remain there.

None of this work happens in isolation. We rely on close coordination with the Department of Homeless Services, DSS, NHRA, NYSHA, HPD, and the VA, shelter operate— operators, property owners, nonprofit housing providers, and legal and community-based organizations. Each partner has a distinct role. DVS helps bring those roles together around the Veteran and their housing plan. That coordination is particularly important when a case requires multiple documents, inspections, agency approvals, and payments process before a move can take place.

We also recognize that housing needs intersect with mental health, employment, and family stability. A veteran seeking an apartment may need a connection to healthcare. A veteran who has moved in may need help securing employment or accessing benefits. Our team works with veterans serving and community partners to make those connections rather than treating housing as a standalone transaction.

Looking ahead, our strategic direction emphasizes faster pathways to permanent housing, stronger landlord relationship, earlier eviction prevention, comprehensive aftercare, and better performance tracking. We also want to strengthen equitable access for women veterans LGBTQ+ veterans, older veterans, veterans with disabilities, and communities that may face additional barriers to services. We must continue improving how we measure placement timelines, voucher utilization, and long-term housing retention so that we understand where the system works and where it needs attention.

I want to be clear, our work is not complete when a veteran accesses shelter. And it is not complete when a housing application is approved. It is complete only when we have done everything within our role to help that veteran build lasting stability. That requires coordination, accountability, and a willingness to keep improving our systems.

Our veterans have served this country in different eras, in different capacities, and with different experiences. They deserve a city that recognizes their service not only through ceremonies and words of appreciation, but through a practical pathway to safe, stable housing and the support needed to remain there. Lastly, on Intro 1051, the Department of Veterans Services supports the intent of this bill and defers to our colleagues at the NYC Department of Finance.

Thank you for the opportunity to testify and for the council's continued attention to the needs of New York City's veterans and military-connected community. I look forward to our continued partnership and happy to answer any questions.

Thank you. Good morning. Good morning, Chair Hudson, Chair Marano, members of the Committee on General Welfare, and members of the Committee on Veterans. I am Erin Dalton, and I serve as the Commissioner of the Department of Social Services. Joining me today is Deputy Commissioner for Adult Service— Adult Services Shelter Operations, Sonia Russell.

Thank you for convening today's oversight hearing on veterans homelessness in New York City. The New York City Department of Veterans Services, or DVS, estimates that there are more than 200,000 veterans who call New York City home. We thank them and all U.S. veterans for their service. New York City has demonstrated its commitment to veterans experiencing homelessness. We opened the first veteran-specific shelter in the country, led the country in efforts to get to functional zero in veterans homelessness, and today have one of the lowest veteran homeless rates of anywhere in the country.

In the 2026 Point-in-Time Count, we counted 791 veterans in shelter and only one unsheltered person who identified as a veteran. I would like to start with an explanation of how we identify and serve veterans in the DHS homelessness system. Every person who comes to DHS intake is asked whether they served in the U.S. military. When someone identifies as a veteran, DHS conducts a verification utilizing the Veterans Affairs SQUARE system.

When a veteran is placed— where a veteran is placed depends on whether they identify as a single adult man, a single adult woman, part of an adult family, or part of a family with children. For single adult men who report as self-reported veteran status, they are offered a bed at Borden Area Veterans Residence, BAVR. If BAVR has no bed available or if they prefer a different setting, they are offered another DHS shelter.

At BAVR, the site's operator, the Institute for Community Living, or ICL, completes intake, including screenings for physical health, mental health, substance abuse, substance use, and disability needs. Until October, October 1st of this year, ICL ran 2 programs in the same building at BAVR. A VA-funded program that's partly funded and overseen by the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs through its Grant and Per Diem, or GPD, program, and a DHS veterans program funded and overseen by DHS for everyone else at the site.

Every veteran DHS referred to BAVR was assessed for the GPD program. The VA decided eligibility using its own criteria, including military, military discharge status, eligibility for VA healthcare, and willingness to follow program rules. Veterans the VA accepted joined the GPD program. Veterans the VA found ineligible or who chose not to take part were placed in the DHS program.

The GPD program at BAVR has now ended. There's no longer a separate VA eligibility decision, and every veteran at BAVR is placed in the DHS program. Staff from the New York City Department— New York City Department of Veterans Services, the VA, and the Supportive Services for Veteran Families, or SSVF, continue to work on site. For single adult women, women veterans are offered placement at one of 2 ICL-run shelters with beds set aside for veterans.

DHS does not have a separate shelter only for women veterans. As of October 18th, 55 women in our DHS shelter program identified as veterans. For adult families, the process is similar. Any member of the family who self-reports as a veteran are offered placement at one of 2 sites with beds set aside for veterans depending on the family's needs.

Families with children under 18 apply for shelter at PATH. That's the Prevention Assistance and Temporary Housing Intake Center. For families with children who include a veteran, we prioritize as close as possible to the youngest child's school. SSVF providers work at PATH to connect these families to SSVF services. For all veterans we serve, whenever a veteran is placed in shelter, whether single adult men, single adult women, adult families, or families with children, our shelters work to connect them with appropriate supportive and wraparound services.

Our DHS Veterans Service Unit at DHS partners with DVS and other stakeholders, including SSVF, the VA, and others to connect veterans to the wealth of local, state, federal, and veteran-specific services in our city, including housing services, medical and behavioral healthcare, city, state, and federal entitlements like public assistance and pension benefits. DHS staff lead this work through regular meetings weekly, biweekly, and monthly with all stakeholders to stay connected and ensure we are working collaboratively to serve our veterans.

The Federal Grant and Per Diem Program. I would like to explain the funding New York City received from the Federal Grant and Per Diem Program, or GPD. GPD— the GPD program provides funding to state, local, and community-based partners who provide services to veterans experiencing homelessness, focusing on transitional supportive housing as a stepstone towards permanent housing. The VA determines eligibility for these services and placements through the GPD program subsequent to a standard DHS intake process previously described.

New York City has been a proud recipient of funding from the GPD program for over 15 years leading into 2026. Thank you. With our last 3-year funding agreement ending, the Department of Homeless Services applied for a new grant in February 2026. In June 2026, the VA responded with their proposed funding for the new grant, and if we had accepted the grant, we would have received an official award letter from the VA in September.

The grant award, which previously covered 154 beds and up to $4 million, was reduced by 70% to cover only 44 beds and provide up to $1.3 million in funding. In addition, for the first time, and as a direct result of the federal Executive Order 14168, Defending Women, Gender Identity, Ideology, Extremism, and Restoring Biological Truth to the Federal Government, issued January 20th, 2025, the grant agreement language included terms and conditions that DHS could not agree to.

For DHS to agree with and comply with the grant's terms and conditions, we would, we would be in violation of state and local laws that protect people from discrimination on the basis of gender. Those laws include New York State law, NYS executive law, 296-A), New York State Regulation 9, New York City RR 466.13, and New York City Local Law Administrative Code Title 8, Chapter 8.

In addition to these legal barriers, the grant's terms and conditions would have required that DHS change the way it operates and introduce discrimination into the intake process, e.g., for example, requiring that we ask questions about biological sex to all people identifying as a veteran. Given this, DHS identified city tax levy dollars needed to fill the gap in federal funds and informed the VA that the grant offer was to be declined.

To reiterate, the agency is now filling this gap with city tax levy funding so no beds or services are lost and every veteran who needs a bed gets one. Today we are serving more veterans at BAVR than we did with the federal funding, funding due to the VA declining many veteran applicants for the grant program. When the grant ended on September 30th, 2026, 105 individuals were residing at BAVR, which has a capacity of 231.

As of October 19th, there are 168 individuals residing at BAVR. DHS is now working to fill all available beds at BAVR with veterans from other shelters and new veterans who come into intake.

I'm going to turn to shelter operations and conditions at Borden Avenue Veterans Residence. ICL serves as the provider at BAVR. ICL has been a provider there since 2008 with the core mission of helping New York City's homeless veteran community improve their physical and mental health through wraparound service, social services, recreational programs to help clients get back on their feet.

ICL works hard to help their veteran clients transition to permanent homes. 173 veterans moved out into housing in FY25, surpassing the annual target of 155, and another 141 veterans moved out into housing in FY26. Since January 2026, 55% of clients have gained or maintained employment. In addition, all critical measures at Borden are going in the right direction.

From January 1st to October 1st, 2026, the site recorded 377 serious incidents, Down 44% from 674 in the same time period in 2025. Every major incident category declined, and the most serious types dropped the most. Psychiatric emergencies fell by more than half. Drug and alcohol incidents fell by 39%. Quality of life and failure to comply incidents fell by 35%.

Fights fell by 31%. Calls to 911 show the same improvement. Thank you. From January to September, calls at the site fell 48% from 813 to 419. Ambulance calls, the largest category, dropped 49%. Disputes fell 58%, and reports of theft fell 80%. BAVR residents are also filing fewer complaints. There were 35 complaints in 2026 compared with 43 in the same time period in 2025.

Transfer requests requests from residents asking to leave the site fell by 60% from 10 to 4. At DSS, DHS, we work together with ICL to listen to the community around the shelter as well as veterans staying at the shelter. For example, the BAVR Community Advisory Board meets quarterly. 3 meetings have occurred thus far this year with a 4th meeting planned for before the end of the year.

The CAB includes community stakeholders to facilitate open dialogue between providers, DHS, elected officials, community board, and community members. CAB meetings offer an opportunity for concerns to be raised, updates about the facility to be shared, successes to be celebrated, and to encourage ongoing constructive collaboration between the shelter and the surrounding community. In addition to the CAB, ICL has regular house meetings at BAVR.

House meetings are held twice a month in the afternoon and evening. They facilitate, facilitate open lines of communication between shelter staff and residents. Staff have the opportunity to reiterate house rules, share upcoming events, and clients have an opportunity to share their feedback. Thank you. In addition to the quarterly CAB, I personally had the opportunity to conduct a listening session with BAVR residents accompanied by DHS Administrator Risa Henderson, representatives from the New York City Department of Veterans Services, and ICL leadership.

During the listening session, we were able to hear from about 20 veterans. We received a lot of positive feedback about the site and services and received mixed or negative feedback about building conditions, security, and service provision. ICL executive leadership and ICL leadership on-site at BAVR have been very receptive to the feedback and a partner— and a partner in considering implementing improvements at BAVR.

DHS is also making a series of repairs and capital improvements at BAVR to fix longstanding problems with the building and protect it for its future. Those repairs and improvements include the following. The roof and the skylight leaks. Until the full roof replacement is complete, DHS is managing leaks in the sleeping area with tarps, which will stay up until further notice.

Beds in the affected areas will stay offline until the capital work is complete. DHS has a contractor on standby to continuously monitor and make temporary repairs to address any leaks that arise from the roof and skylight due to inclement weather. Roof and skylight replacement. A $4.3 million DHS capital project will replace the building's entire roof and skylights.

Design is complete and the project will now move to procurement with work scheduled from June 2027 to December 2029. Beds under the skylights will stay offline and be taken offline in phases while the skylights are replaced. For flood protection, a new flood wall will be built behind the building to protect it from future storms. Design is complete and the project is scheduled to move to procurement with construction planned for December 2027. 2027 through December 2028.

The project costs $2.9 million. Federal resiliency funding secured with the support of Congresswoman Velázquez covers 75%, and DHS capital funds cover the rest. Shower privacy. ICL is installing privacy partitions in all 32 showers. The showers are in 2 areas of 15 and 17 each. Each area will close in turn while partitions are installed so that the other areas stay open.

ICL expects the work to take 6 to 8 weeks. Residents also raised concerns about the food at BAVR, and we take those concerns seriously. ICL switched food vendors in 2022 in response to resident feedback, and in the coming weeks, DHS and ICL are exploring making additional changes in response to resident concerns. In addition to responding to the smaller concerns related to the quality of food on site, we are also looking at opportunities with the on-site commercial kitchens.

Residents see what we see there, a commercial kitchen that is only used a few hours a day and not at all on weekends. That kitchen is an opportunity. DHS and ICL are exploring creative partnerships to make better use of it, including the potential to bring in military chefs to prepare special meals for residents. That was a resident idea.

We are also looking at bigger changes to how food, food is prepared at BAVR. Some of those changes will require procurement, and those discussions are just beginning. We will keep residents informed as plans take shape. On-site services at Borden Avenue. Some services that residents once relied on are no longer available in the building. During COVID several on-site programs were paused and never restarted, including Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous.

Some DHS procedures have also made it harder for outside providers and volunteers to come on-site. We are working through these challenges. We are committed to a simpler, faster process for bringing services back into the building without compromising residents confidentiality, or safety. Our goal is to make it easy for trusted partners such as recovery groups, veterans organizations, and community providers to meet residents where they live.

These services will add to the support already available on-site, including employment and training programs, physical and mental health and substance use services, and access to public benefits and permanent affordable housing. We will continue to monitor food— we will continue to monitor building, food, and service conditions at BAVR.

I will now turn to the legislation being discussed today. Introduction 897, sponsored by Councilmember Feliz, would require best efforts for regular outreach work engagement every 2 hours between 8:00 PM and 8:00 AM during severe winter weather responses, coordinating with sister agencies on transportation, warming buses, warming centers, harm reduction facilities, as well as requiring 4 reports One report prior to November, December, January, and February each winter on plans to implement the severe weather response.

We appreciate Council's focus on severe winter weather responses to ensure vulnerable New Yorkers are kept safe during the severe winter weather events. We share this concern and focus. Our severe weather response strategy is developed to incorporate lessons learned from prior Code Blue and Code Red responses. The flexibility to implement lessons learned and revise strategies is critical to keeping New Yorkers safe during severe weather.

We hope to have substantive discussions with the sponsor and council to consider amendments to take into account a more comprehensive understanding of our current approach for Code Blue and the ongoing need to remain flexible when preparing for a severe weather event. We have no concerns with the bill's proposal for regular reporting on Code Blue responses, but many of the other elements of the proposed legislation would require discussion.

The current language is based on DHS's previous approach, which centered on a list of known vulnerable clients who outreach teams would check on repeatedly during the weather event. This is no longer the centerpiece of our response. Every year we will still identify the most vulnerable people on the street and make sure each one has a safety plan before winter, but focusing only on that list leaves us with an approach for— without an approach for the roughly 5,000 other people on the street.

On the coldest nights and hottest nights of the year, the people we don't know may be at the greatest risk. During the coldest nights of the year, additional canvassers will join DHS staff and contracted outreach teams to cover areas where we know most people experiencing unsheltered homelessness are staying. These teams will engage everyone they encounter. Everyone will be warned about the dangers of extreme weather and offered warming or cooling space, a shelter, a safe haven bed, another safe place to go with transportation to get there.

We tested this approach during Code Red, and looking at one day this past— during Code Red this past summer, teams recorded more than 2,000 engagements with vulnerable people, roughly 20 times as many contacts, and 7 times as many placements as on a comparable day under the old approach. They handed out supplies to more than 1,500 people and completed nearly 200 medical assessments.

This approach will continue during Code Blue, and as currently drafted, the introduction would limit our ability to implement this approach effectively. DSS is committed to working with clients, shelter providers, elected officials, and our community stakeholders to continue to uphold our responsibility to serve veterans with the quality care they deserve. DHS will continue to help to support them on their journey to stability with permanent and affordable housing that meets their individual needs.

These are men and women who serve this country. They deserve nothing less than our best effort to help find stable, permanent, affordable housing. I appreciate the council's leadership and attention to this work, and thank you for the opportunity to testify today and clear up any misunderstandings about the grant. I welcome your questions.

Thank you. Thank you, Commissioners. And Commissioner Dalton, thank you especially for not only your testimony, but going out of your way to accommodate my colleagues and I in our visits to Borden Avenue, and being patient with our questions, and being receptive to resident feedback. Let me begin with discussion of the VA grant, since it's been such a hot topic, and since you alluded to that in your testimony.

Your testimony says the VA offered the city $1.3 million to support 44 beds, compared with the previous $4 million supporting 154 beds, right? Yes. So I understand that you had objections to the federal conditions. Even if the city had to replace most of the funding with city dollars, wouldn't accepting $1.3 million still have reduced the burden on city taxpayers?

Did the administration Did you explore accepting the federal funding for eligible beds while separately using city resources to ensure every other veteran continued receiving services? Yeah, thank you for that question. The challenge with the grant's terms and conditions is that they would require us to be in violation of state and local laws, and therefore we could not sign that grant agreement and accept those dollars.

And therefore, we look for the city dollars to continue to serve every veteran that comes to our door. So there was no way to accept the grant money and then, say, challenge the provisions that we believe are in violation of city and state law in court or something along those lines? It's a little bit out of my legal expertise.

However, my understanding is that The difference here is that this was a new grant agreement. When we were— when we had grant agreements and changes had been made, we could amend those and note our objections and continue and proceed with— in court. But with this being a new grant agreement, we'd be signing on to those conditions from the beginning and therefore could not— could not— could not do that without violating state and local laws.

When time permits, if you could provide the committee with the legal analysis explaining why that arrangement wasn't permissible, I'd certainly appreciate it.

I visited Borden Avenue a couple of weeks ago. I thought many aspects of the facility looked good, and I said so publicly. And honestly, given so many of the stories that we've heard from former Borden Avenue residents, I was quite frankly expecting much worse. I was troubled by the leaks And the tarps, which you alluded to in your testimony.

Your testimony said the $4.3 million roof and skylight replacement won't be completed until December of 2029. Are— I just— are you telling us that veterans could be living in a shelter with tarps hanging over their sleeping areas for another 3 years? Thank you. Thank you for the question. So where there are tarps in the building, there are not veterans sleeping under those, right?

We are taking those sleeping areas offline. Currently, I believe there are 7 sleeping areas offline due to repairs being made to the roof. But the construction process and procurement city process does give the timeline that I gave in my testimony, which Runs through December of 2029, but is expected to start in June of 2027. So hopefully progress will be seen throughout that time.

Is there anything that can be done to accelerate that timetable, maybe some sort of emergency procurement or any other way to eliminate the tarps at least a bit sooner? I would certainly share that interest in expediting the timeline, I can come back and see if there's anything we can do. You also alluded to the showers, and this is one thing that struck me during my visit— these barrack-style showers, almost like you'd see in a prison.

I understand that many of these veterans served in the military, but obviously they're civilians now and they deserve some privacy. Your testimony discusses shower improvements and This doesn't strike me as a multimillion-dollar project at all. Can you give us a hard and fast date of when every shower will offer reasonable privacy? The best information I have available is that that work has been approved by us at the city, will be conducted by ICL, the provider. and has a timeline of 6 to 8 weeks.

There is a process of taking some of those showers offline while those partitions are being constructed and then putting those back online and then doing the next set. And so there will be the time— there will be some showers that will have those partitions in place before the end of that timeline.

Your testimony reports that serious incidents at Borden Avenue declined 44% from 674 to 377, and 911 calls declined 48% from 813 to 419. Those are very impressive numbers, and if they're accurate, I think the administration, including you, deserves a great deal of credit for that. But what specifically changed? Was it staffing? Was it security? Was it programming?

Was it the resident population? Was it how incidents were classified and reported? It's great that we're seeing a decline in incidents, What do we attribute that to? Not sure. I'm going to see if the Deputy Commissioner has any ideas about that, but I don't think there have been changes in the way that the data is being recorded.

Good morning again. Sonya Russell, Deputy Commissioner, Department of Homeless Services. So thank you for that question. It is a great question. I would have to attribute that to ICL, the fact that we work collectively and collaboratively with their staff and identifying incidences as soon as they happen, or not to be reactive but proactive. So that has to do with the common conversations that we have or consistent conversations that we have, the meetings that we have.

DHS is on site at Borden at least twice a week, if not once a week. So we do have staff there. And again, it's through meetings with the program director as well as ICL leadership Yeah, I'm looking forward to hearing from ICL, and I certainly appreciate the work they're doing. Were the reporting standards and definitions identical in both years?

Yes, sir, they were. Last question I'll ask for now. I have a number of other questions, but I know my colleagues do as well. Commissioner Dalton, your testimony says that Borden Avenue has capacity for 231 residents, but only 168 were living there as of last week. That means approximately 63 beds were unoccupied. At a time when hundreds of veterans are experiencing homelessness in New York City, why are so many beds empty?

Is that 63 more beds that could be used to make sure a veteran's not sleeping on the street? Yeah, no, thank you. I'll start and then I'll let the Deputy Commissioner add. Actually, as of today, there are 198 beds filled. We've been working— DHS, the Deputy Commissioner, and others— have been working hard to move veterans from other shelters into the residence at Borden now that we control that eligibility entirely and expect to continue to make transfers up into the space that the capacity allows for, acknowledging that there are 7 units offline because of the tarps.

Hmm. So we have moved with speed to fill the facility since the grant ended. We'll have that facility up to the full census quickly. So in terms of beds that are unavailable because of roof leaks or repairs, it's about 7? 7 is my understanding, yes. Okay. I have a number of other questions, but I'll defer to Chair Hudson and my colleagues.

Thank you so much, Chair Murano.

A few questions I'd like to veer towards street homelessness and safe havens. I understand that although we're nearly 1 year into this new administration, DHS is not actively considering new locations for street homeless sites such as safe havens and drop-in centers until the administration releases a long-term shelter capacity plan. What's the timeline for release of that plan so that we can continue long-term efforts to address street homelessness?

Yeah, thank you for that question. And, and street homelessness and our unsheltered New Yorkers are my top priority. And I would not say that we are not actively looking at bringing on additional safe haven beds. But you are correct. We have, in the block-by-block report, we announced that there would be a homelessness plan within the next year, and we are working on that homelessness plan, which would include, of course, a plan for our unsheltered.

Thank you. And does the administration plan to continue supporting the nonprofit ownership model as a tool for creating long-term shelter and safe haven capacity? All of that too will be covered in the homelessness plan, which we are working intently on right now. Okay. I'm going to guess your answer to this, but will you commit to appropriate funds to that program to ensure the creation of new street homeless sites?

All of those conversations are happening. Again, really critical priority for me as I come to the city to make sure we're doing the most we can for our unsheltered New Yorkers. It's a huge emphasis, a time, a place where I've spent a lot of my time since I've been here, and working on the plan that is forthcoming.

Okay. Thanks. We'll revisit that when maybe better appropriate. Have any proposed street homeless sites been delayed or denied because of Office of Management and Budget concerns surrounding costs? And if so, what are those concerns and how has OMB determined which approaches to street homeless site funding offers the best long-term value for taxpayers? No, I don't— I do not know of any sites that are delayed for those reasons.

We are working on a forward-looking plan and working in partnership with OMB on that. They are certainly one voice in that conversation as well. We have opinions about the best ways to serve this group of people. To your knowledge, has anyone from OMB visited any shelters in the network? I think you would have to ask OMB. I don't know.

And can you commit to providing the committee within 30 days a written update identifying the status of the shelter capacity plan, the future of the nonprofit ownership program, and any policy or budget barriers currently preventing new safe haven and drop-in center projects from advancing? An update? I think an update we could provide for sure. That was the question, right?

A written update. A written update on the status. Yeah, yeah. So from my perspective, just to make sure I can really— yeah, well, if you say it's, it's, it's a go, then staff has got to do it. So, um, I am not committing to the homelessness plan or any of those in the next 30 days, but I would be happy to commit to an update on where we are with all of this.

Update on status. Yeah. Okay, thank you.

Um, yeah, I also want to acknowledge Councilmember Juan and Councilmember Gutierrez, uh, who are here. And then I think Councilmember Juan was first up in the queue. Thank you so much, Chair Marano. Thank you to all the agencies that have come to testify. It's so good to see you all. My name is Julie Juan. I'm currently the City Council member representing the only veteran shelter in the entire City of New York.

For the last 5 years, we have had the same amount of complaints, and even before I was elected, we had the same amount of complaints. extremely disturbing. In addition, I saw— I appreciate your testimony where you addressed some of the concerns that we have heard for years about this shelter. So as you have seen in the news, we've had a lot of shelter residents complain about the lack of privacy in the bathrooms.

Currently in the only veteran shelter, year after year for over 10 years, people have complained that they have to shower communally. Could you imagine if you have served in war and now they want you to be butt naked in front of each other every time you want to shower. That is currently what it— what the system is, and people have complained for years, and every single year we have had lip service that there would be partitions put up, that there would be partitions put up, that there would be partitions put up.

And especially those who are struggling with mental illness, substance abuse, they're forced to either not shower or shower in front of each other. That is no way to treat a human being with dignity. That is inhumane. And I see in the testimony that there is a commitment to have partitions put up within the next 6 to 8 weeks.

So we will continue to follow up with our shelter residents who want to have privacy and decency so that they can shower with dignity. So we will wait for the next 2 months starting from today. To make sure that finally that they will have privacy to shower. Next, we have physically seen and the press has seen how there is an incredible amount of leakage from the roof.

So I see that there's a commitment to make sure that there is some sort of roof and skylight replacement, and it says that it's going to be from 2027 to 2029. So could you help me understand how many beds are offline because of the lack of capital repairs that were needed? Because it says that those who are affected by the leak will not be able to stay there and they will stay offline.

How many beds are we talking about in the only shelter that we have in the city? Yeah, thank you for that question, and I share the concern and your approach to the requirement of privacy for our veterans. So I do apologize on behalf of all of those veterans that those partitions had not been in place for so long, but we in this administration saw that and are committed to working with ICL to get that done, and I know you all will hold us accountable to do that over the timeline we proposed.

Thank you. So right now, there— we have a vendor who is consistently assessing and making roof repairs. And then we have tarps where we cannot patch those repairs, and there is some water coming into the facility. There are 7 tarps as of right now. And we monitor that on a very regular basis and will continue to do so until the roof and skylight repair is completely is complete.

As we proceed with the construction, we can keep the council updated, and we will do everything in our control to have minimal disruption to the facility. My understanding, and we can get back to you and make sure that this is correct, it's really only the replacement of the skylights that would take any units offline, which we can do in a kind of staged way such that we would not have a significant number of units offline.

And so we can come back as the construction begins and give updates on that, but I don't think we expect significant disruption while we replace the roof and ceilings. So how many beds are affected by the leak? There are 7 beds affected by the leak right now, and that means that there are not veterans Those beds are offline.

Okay. And those 7 beds will be offline for 2 years minimum. Can you also help me understand— And that may be correct, but we also are making regular repairs. And so I think like sometimes it's 5 and sometimes it's 7. And, you know, like it goes up and down a little bit as we make repairs to a roof that clearly needs to be replaced.

Can you help me understand, is this the same contractor that has had this contract for this capital repair in the previous years? Or is this a new contractor? Who is responsible? I believe we're just actually moving into procurement. So that— and I'll see if the Deputy Commissioner knows. But I think— and we can make sure to get back to you.

I think it is a different— we don't know who the vendor will be yet, I think, for the roof repair and for the full roof replacement. And so I don't think we could actually answer the question of whether there's— Could I have more time, please? One more, please, and then we'll come back to you. We have a lot of our colleagues that want to— Understood.

So since I'm going to run out of time because I have to go vote, I may come back. I just want to put it on record that we have had clear complaints, multiple complaints directly to the press on record as well as off record from constituents who live in the Veterans Shelter about the mistreatment of the people who live there by the by the ICL employees themselves and negligence, that they're not receiving the substance abuse services that they need, as well as mental health care, as well as caseworkers to help them apply for permanent housing and also for mediation between conflict amongst the residents themselves.

And it's extremely concerning for them to send us direct messages and screenshots of ICL telling them that you're visiting that day and to clear all of their urine out of their individual rooms because they tend to urinate in their own cupboards because they don't have enough privacy in the bathrooms and they don't feel safe. And also we have multiple instances of recordings and photographs of people who are continuing to have severe substance abuse within the shelter itself.

We're extremely concerned, and we also want to hear a clear understanding and an update on the NDAs that are mandatory for elected officials to sign in order to enter the shelter. We can't have oversight authority over the shelter and city agencies if we have to sign an NDA and we cannot publicly speak about the issues that people are coming to us to complain about.

So I want to have that cleared up because I really appreciated you coming. and speaking with the veterans themselves directly because they were so sure that you were just going to walk away from them and not even look them in the eye, and you did the opposite. You were willing to speak to them and you are willing to address these issues.

I very much appreciate you and I look forward to working together to make sure that a lot of these issues are resolved. Thank you.

Councilmember Palladino. Thank you very much. Let me commend my colleague Julie Wan. That was excellent, Julie. You nailed it. I'm interested in the Commissioner of Department of Social Services. I believe your name is Erin Dalton. How long have you been Commissioner for the Department of Social Services? Since March 2nd. So you're a newbie. Where— what was your prior experience before doing this?

I ran the Department of Human Services in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. That's Pittsburgh. There, my portfolio was broader than it is here. I ran everything from newborn early intervention, child protection, the mental health and substance use programs, the homelessness programs. Mm-hmm. I also ran veterans services. I ran aging programs. And so violence prevention programs, a wide range of Okay, because obviously it sounds like you're stuck like a deer in the headlights right now.

We have many, many, many concerns about the Borden Street Shelter, most of which was eloquently put in front of you today. Also, the Commissioner of Homeless Services, we have got— you're talking about how much is it going to cost? The number went by me. Maybe it got crossed out. $1.5 million. I'm not quite sure, but I'd like you to repeat yourself.

What is the amount to fix the roof that only is going to displace 7 veterans? So that's a rather small piece of a roof unless you're doing the entire roof. What is the price of that? I'll answer the question first about the price and then try to clarify the 7 quickly. Sure. Go ahead. The price that is budgeted is $4.3 million and then— $4.3 million.

To replace the entire roof and skylights. Okay. Are they removing just the third roof, the second roof? What's going— you know, there's 3 roofs and then they got to rip off and do a complete redo. How big is the facility? What's the square footage of the facility? I'd have to get back to you. I don't know. You're not sure about that.

Okay. Because that determines price. We have now put aside $1.86 billion to house illegal immigrants in this country. $1.86 billion so that they could go into hotels, have private bathrooms, kitchenettes, I'm sure. Mm-hmm. And our veterans, are going to live in subhuman conditions. It's pathetic. What I heard here today is making me sick. There is absolutely zero reason for this to happen.

Also, we've got, uh, non-for-profits, uh, financing this. I want the 990s. on these nonprofits. I want to know who they are. I want to see how much money these nonprofits are making off of one shelter, homeless shelter, for our veterans, our veterans. This is absolutely disgusting and disgraceful. I'm embarrassed for all of you. And when Julie went down there and visited with Phil, And they saw what they saw and they had to send an NDA.

Ludicrous. As elected officials, we owe it to our fellow citizens, homeless veterans, whatever, to know what's going on. The other thing is to not have mental health facilities set up for our veterans inside of these homeless shelters. is also another disgrace. There are so many layers to this cake. How everybody's very calm here is wonderful, and I applaud you all.

But let me tell you something, pull your act together because going forward we are going to be breathing all over you. Wasteful spending, $1.86 billion going to illegal instead of to our veterans. Why? Why? And you're gonna pay $4.3 million to fix a roof and displace 7 veterans. We're supposed to be happy about that? Proud of you for doing that?

I'm not proud of you. I'm embarrassed for you. Our veterans deserve top-notch treatment. Yes, ma'am! And that's all I have to say. I got a press conference to do. Bye-bye.

Just to follow up on what Councilmember Palladino and Councilmember Juan alluded to, since they both brought it up and it was on my list as well, the issue of the so-called NDAs. Before I visited Borden Avenue, you know, DSS had sent me a document which they referred to as an NDA. saying I had to sign it to go.

And obviously I was not gonna sign an NDA because I want to be able to share broadly exactly what I observed— good, bad, ugly. And I forwarded this to the attorneys for the city council, and they said their view was that it was not an NDA, that it was a patient confidentiality form that just prevented me from sharing any confidential patient information that I got.

Then when I got to Borden Avenue, one of your staffers for DSS, who was very professional and terrific, he asked several of us that were visiting, "Oh, did everybody sign their NDA?" Which you know added to a little bit of the of the confusion. I'm wondering, since several of my colleagues have brought this up now, what exactly is the policy with respect to signing a form before you visit Borden Avenue or other shelters?

And what does that form actually prevent someone? Yeah, thank you for the question and the opportunity to clarify there. All right, so DHS, I mean, I'll just start with, of course, we have a requirement, us and our providers, to keep our clients, whether veterans or other people experiencing homelessness, their safety and confidentiality at the forefront of our work.

This is where people are living and staying, and they have a right to privacy in those settings. And so we have codified the way we grant access to our shelters in a DHS policy and procedure. It's got a name. It's DHS PB 2026-001. We can make that available to you. It's a, it's a long document and has different specifications for different types of visitors, because you can imagine there are different types of visitors, and there is a section on elected officials.

Part of the reason we codified this and require signing the agreement that you referenced and others have referenced is it's the way we comply with, again, state and local law, right? So there's the State Social Services Law 136 and New York City Administrative Code 23-1201 through 23-1205, the Identifying Information Law. So we— both the form and the way we proceduralize that in our document are the ways that we comply with, again, state and federal— state and local law.

To be clear, this is about protecting people. This is not about talking about a tarp. People are free to talk about the tarps that they saw with their own eyes. about the food that they saw or that they heard about, anything else except for people's identity and their privacy, right? So that's the piece that we are trying to protect and are required to protect under state and local law.

And so if they're, you know, perhaps it is an area where the administration and council need to more discussion, but we have documented that protocol in a whole procedure and are following it in accordance with the state and local law. Now, I don't think any of my colleagues, even a rule-breaker like Councilmember Wong here, would ever reveal confidential patient information to anybody.

But so just to be clear, before any of us are able to visit Borden Avenue, We do have to sign this document. Is that a requirement? It is a requirement. Okay. I have a number of other questions.

Councilmember Wilson. Thank you, Chair. Hello, Commissioner. I want to turn back to street homelessness and outreach that my other honorable chair brought up. You know, I know you have a very difficult job, and, you know, when we have these conversations, passions run high, but I would like to acknowledge how difficult of a task that you have. I know from interactions on issues in my district, I appreciate how hands-on you've been, personally coming to walkthroughs, et cetera.

There was a report in Gothamist that highlighted the exorbitant amounts of money that are being spent on outreach, yet the results seem to be going in the other direction, in a negative direction. What, uh, yet it compares to under the Bloomberg administration when there was outreach that was individualized for each borough, that a decrease had happened, a 40% decrease in street homelessness.

Yet now I'm hearing from, uh, meetings that I'm having in district, one of the problems were— is about the amount of outreach workers not being able to coordinate, not being able to share information. Leading to individuals on the street having like 4, 5 different agencies approach them, ask them for shelter, but there's not a coordination or like individual strategy.

Who's the front, you know, who's leading that? So how do we, how do we fix that? How do we get the coordination together so that these people doing this really difficult work are getting a result? Thank you so much for, for the, for the question and for raising the issue that I agree is very— a very important component of the way we engage and serve our unhoused neighbors.

And this too is an area that I'm taking a close look at. We've been holding meetings across city government and with state partners as well, looking at those very issues, and we'll be very pleased to share more in the homelessness plan. And how are the engagements measured? Because that was another criticism in the article, that the results that we're looking at are more about times engaged and not necessarily the outcome, the placement.

So how do we retool that so that we're really focusing on the outcome we want, which is placement? Yeah, I mean, to my understanding, we are tracking placements for a the contracted outreach that we support. But I understand the broader point of accountability and wanting to ensure that those efforts, not just the funding, but the efforts of people are leading to the results that we want to see.

And again, I think we can do more as a city and as a set of partners to serve that group. And it starts with that outreach. And there was also, I believe in September, there was a bit of a— and something I'm getting a lot of questions about in the community— a change in terms of when there is street homelessness reported.

The 311s for that are no longer routing to NYPD, going to DSS. Could you help us understand the reason for that change and what the broader policy goal is by changing who's responding first to the engagement? Sure. I think it is— it's a small but I think important change to have the right people going to the event, right?

And so what you're talking about is that 311 calls to identify whether a reported encampment is a homeless encampment moved from the NYPD to DHS Homeless Services. So now we're the people who go out there and not only determine whether it in fact meets the legal definition of an encampment, but can do outreach and engagement. Also, having that data entirely within our domain allows us to use it to, again, sort of target outreach to the places where it's needed most, where people are calling about encampments, even if it's not a legally defined— it's not an encampment under a legal definition, it's a signal of concern in the community.

So now we can use that information to deploy our outreach in more strategic ways. So I'm pleased that we were able to— we are able to do that work now and not only identify and make the legal determination of whether it's an encampment or not, but to start outreach. if we hadn't already been working with those folks already.

And my— some colleagues at the state level have introduced legislation that would require for multidisciplinary teams to go out to do this engagement. Would— how— so that's just, who is going to do those initial assessments on when the 311 is placed? Is that a DSS worker? Is that contracted outreach? Who's the first point of contact? It could either be a contracted outreach or a DHS employee.

And you didn't quite ask, but I do agree, if that's where you're headed, that different skills are required at different parts of an engagement, and a core theory of engagement is also required. Peers can be very helpful. People who have experienced unsheltered homelessness or homelessness can be excellent at talking with folks. And there are times when clinicians are required.

We do have clinicians on our team at DHS, and our contracted providers also have clinicians on those teams, and we work closely with the state's SOS team as well. Of course, we need that kind of multidisciplinary approach to handle various types of encounters. Thank you, Chair, and, you know, I just want to say too that I do— I welcome a perspective from Pittsburgh.

I welcome a new way of looking at this because I think the agencies get we, you know, we kind of get bunker mentality. This is the way we do things and this is how it's done. And so I, you know, respect that you've been on the job for 6 months, but I'm hopeful that we can have that outside perspective really peel back all these layers here because it's resulting in folks not really getting connected to what they, they need.

So thank you, Chair. Thank you.

Councilmember Wong. Thank you. Thank you, Chair. By sitting in the Veterans Committee, members here have a charter-mandated duty for oversight. And with that in my mind, that's why I visited the Borden Avenue shelter with Councilmember Julie Wan a couple weeks ago. And with us were members of American Legions and members of VFWs and And they heard, and this was documented, that the person in the front desk told us that we cannot go in unless there's permission from the Department of Social Services and from the mayor's office.

And despite that, Councilmember Julie Juana and I decided to go in anyway. And then there were several people following us. And I was there. Telling me, I'm going to quote, council members, you're not allowed to walk down that way. Council members, you're not allowed to enter that bathroom. Council member, you're not allowed to open that door, that library door.

Those are the replies I got, and a lot of it was in video. And what I want to say is, it wasn't accommodating at all. And certainly your office did not give the approval for Councilmember Julie Wan and I to visit the place because we didn't make an appointment, we didn't sign an NDA, and so forth. And I can say for certainty, we are talking about the problems right now because we did not sign any NDAs.

That's how these problems get exposed. Thank you. Those roof leaks did not start a couple months ago. They've been leaking for years. Veterans did not have enough food for years. No one is talking about it because the people who visited had to sign NDAs. So I want to— okay, we're here to get answers, and that's why I serve here.

Otherwise, I have other committees to serve. I care about the homeless shelters. I care about the veterans. And I serve in camp meetings. The Pan Am, Pan Am shelter is the end of my block. I've been to their camp meetings. I know how it works. These issues have been talked about again and again in camp meetings, and nothing got discussed openly.

Nothing got brought up until this hearing.

Now, Questions? Okay, I want to correct something. It says DHS is managing leaks in the sleeping area with tops. This statement alone is very, very disappointing and heartbreaking because it sounds like that's how DHS is handling all the leaks in all the shelters, with tops. And I want to add to that, it's not just tops, are the buckets too.

Buckets and buckets right underneath the top collecting the water. And then after, after the rain, when the water flows somewhere else, they have to move the buckets. That's what's happening at Borden Avenue. And when you say that in the testimony, it sounds like that's how you're handling leaks in other shelters. And this is very, very, uh, unacceptable and very, very disgusting.

Right. And And then floods. A new flood wall will be built behind the building. So by telling me that, you're saying there's been a flooding condition in the Borden Avenue shelter for many, many years and nothing is being addressed until now. And again, Chairman Morano said it correctly. It doesn't take 3 years to finish a roof. And I want to be on the record that DHS and the mayor's office have not been accommodating at all.

My question is this. Let's start with the kitchen. The kitchen is now being subleased to a culinary cooking school instead of being a facility that is available for veterans to cook their food, to heat up their foods or do their own cooking. This is happening right under our eyes, and it's my understanding that whole site should be a shelter.

Why is it part of it is being leased to a culinary school? Can you answer that? Sure. Thank you for the question. I testified to this, right? I agree. We see that same commercial kitchen and think it could be a better use to the people that are staying there. And so we are pursuing changes and looking at the opportunities that that kitchen could provide.

So I agree with you. I heard concerns about the food. I see the opportunity with the kitchen. We see the provider, ICL, also sees that opportunity. And those things take a little bit of time, but we are looking at the food. I will say, I don't think it's a problem to sublease parts of the kitchen to other training programs, right?

These are There are spots reserved for ICL residents. These are programs, these are workforce programs that give people a skill. And so I think there's not a problem with that. But veterans cannot sign up to the culinary school. That's what they told me. That is not correct. In fact, there are spots saved. It is a long program.

My understanding is it's a 6-month program. It takes place during weekdays, and a lot of the veterans who are staying at Borden Area Shelter are also working another job, so they may not apply and may not take advantage of that. But it is not correct that they cannot participate. Well, at least 2 veterans, when I stood outside with Councilmember Juan, told me that they want to sign up for the culinary school and they were told that they have to go somewhere else to learn how to cook, not in that school.

All right. Which is truly shameful because you let this happen. that that facility is meant for veterans and you let this space to be subleased to a culinary program and the veterans living in there have no access to it. All right, and that's unacceptable. And you're saying that's not happening, it's not true. That is what I'm saying.

That's my understanding. I will look into it further, but I've asked these questions already and been given assured answers that that is not correct. I should also just point out that, I mean, your point is still correct that we agree that that kitchen is underused for the people staying there. But the program is run by another one of our providers and serves a similar population, a non-veteran population.

But it does serve people. But isn't it common sense that if the facility is a veteran shelter, then the kitchen should be available at all times? to the veterans? I agree and testified that that is something that we want to take a look at.

Okay, my next question— I'm sorry. We'll come back to you. Okay, we'll come back to you and we'll give you a little extra time because I understand it's your birthday. Happy birthday, may all your wishes come true. Thank you. Keep in mind, give them gentle answers back. Chair Hudson. Okay, thank you. I just wanted to take an opportunity to address some of the things that I've heard from my colleagues because I've been to the shelter now twice in the last week or so, and I've seen some of these things with my own eyes.

First, I want to say, I know Councilmember Palladino mentioned an embarrassment of sorts. I think for me, what's most embarrassing is when my colleagues in the City Council cannot make a distinction between our roles and responsibilities, the roles and responsibilities of the mayoral administration, and those of the federal government and state government. And so we have a federal government that I— first of all, I want to say I commend the administration for the investment that you have made in upkeeping this shelter despite the challenges that have been presented, I would say, by the federal government.

A federal government that doesn't believe women should be serving in the military, that doesn't support Certainly many more than just just women, members of the LGBT community, so forth. But I think there's just there's been a conflation of certain statements, and to be clear about the the kitchen specifically, there is no shelter provider that allows residents to cook their own food in any shelter.

That is not something that is allowable regardless of who is staying in the shelter. So to imply that a kitchen should allow residents to cook their own food is just inaccurate. Secondly, and, and I know that members from ICL who runs the shelter will testify later on, and I hope that everyone who is here to grandstand will stay for all of those testimonies and then ask some more pointed questions.

But, you know, it's my understanding that there is a service or an opportunity for people to use the kitchen and that the program specifically has a lot of requirements that not every resident is willing to participate in. And so I look forward to hearing some of the nuances of this. And this is not to say that there aren't disappointing circumstances at the shelter.

It's also not to say that we shouldn't be treating our veterans with far more dignity and respect. I saw a gentleman last night who had a carton of juice that my 3-year-old should be drinking, not a grown man. And so these are systemic issues that I know, Commissioner Dalton, you are invested in addressing, and I know the folks who are running not just this shelter but every shelter across the city are also invested in addressing.

We have a system that doesn't work for the most vulnerable people who rely on it the most. And those are the things that I hope to be able to get to the center of, not just at this hearing, but at every other hearing that I will be chairing as chair of the General Welfare Committee with oversight over the Department of Social Services, including the Department of Homeless Services.

So much of our system does not work for those who need it But I just wanted to make sure that on the record I had an opportunity to clarify some of the points, because it is disappointing when folks use opportunities like this to leverage really vulnerable people and vulnerable moments and really hard work that people do every single day to make light of the realities that are happening.

And also, when so much of it is happening from a federal government that some of the people support and then want to complain about the city government not doing what is actually the job of the federal government. So I just wanted to state that for the record. Thank you. Thank you, Chair. I'll just add, you know, I think it's no secret that I disagree with several of the characterizations made of the current federal government administration.

We have 5 panels of the public that are here to testify today, and what I want to do in this hearing today is get answers from the public, from both of the commissioners that are good enough to be here, and help that testimony inform what we're doing on a legislative basis. And the truth is, could the federal government be doing more for veterans?

100%. so could the city, so could the state, so could we all. And I really do believe that all of my colleagues here, Democrat, Republican, whatever, are all approaching this hearing and this issue from a place of passion and wanting to do better for our veterans. And I love that I'm in a body where we can have such spirited disagreements about those sort of things, but there's no disagreement that there should be no veteran homelessness.

With that, before we get to Councilmember Juan, I see Commissioner Mata is getting very antsy because no one has asked her a question in a while, so I'm not going to do that to you. Your testimony says that 209 veterans were placed into permanent housing in fiscal year 2026 and that 702 veterans answered an aftercare call, and those are encouraging numbers.

But how many of the 209 veterans are still housed today, and do we know how many have returned to homelessness? Thank you for that question. I will pass it on to our Associate Commissioner, Donnée Smalls, who handles the aftercare component. Good morning, Chair. Morning. Co-chair. Donnée Smalls, Associate Commissioner for the New York City Department of Veterans Services.

Also a combat veteran. Currently, all 209 veterans are still housed. None have returned back to shelter. So the housing retention rate at 6 months, 12 months, 24 months, do we know what that is? I can get those numbers back to you. I'd appreciate it. I think the committee would value that as well.

Let me also follow up on one of the issues one of the issues that several of my colleagues raised, which is this issue of, was our visit there atypical, right? A lot of us remember Hogan's Heroes when the Geneva Convention would come to town. The POW camp was a very different place than on a typical day. There was a flyer distributed which was shown on the news and elsewhere essentially warning folks to clean up containers of urine and things like that.

When I visited, ICL told me that, one, it's not atypical to have these sorts of flyers to encourage people to clean up their space, and they also said that they would welcome unannounced visits from me or any of my colleagues. There seemed to be a little confusion about what the policy in terms of unannounced visits is. What exactly is the policy when it comes to unannounced visits?

Am I able to go to Borden Avenue today, tomorrow, next week, without telling anybody, as long as I sign that form that you referenced earlier? I will, I will start, and I'll see if the Deputy Commissioner has anything to add there. So as I mentioned before, and you probably don't want me to go through the whole thing again, the— we have a, we have a policy and a set of procedures for entrance into our shelter system that are our way of complying with both state and local laws.

And as DHS— and the Deputy Commissioner can, can speak to that, and a number of other people can— make unannounced visits to check in on the conditions as part of our oversight responsibility. And, and I think, I think you would count this as an unannounced visit. Last night, Chair Hudson and I— We coordinated, right, so she, we coordinate, she coordinated with our office, she signed the appropriate agreement, and without telling the provider, which is the important part, and I can assure you I did not tell the provider that we were coming, we showed up at Borden Avenue Shelter at 8 PM, around 8 PM last night.

And so that is an unannounced visit. Right, so I don't want to belabor the point because, but we do have a very cynical public, as you know, especially New Yorkers. Right, and it's a cynical public that I'm sure already thinks I'm being way too nice to you guys, but a lot of folks will say that if you're telling the DSS Commissioner, hey, you know, we're coming to this shelter today, that's not exactly the same as just a regular unannounced visit of me going without telling you.

Yeah, so that is not currently in our allowed procedure, and again, which is routed in state, and and local law. There are some circumstances, and, you know, it's written in those procedures— Sure. Like the Coalition for the Homeless under court order. We've protocolized ways that they can do visits of that kind. And it is, I think, possible to get to that kind of an understanding, but it is not our current approach.

We must follow the current, and DHS and certainly our providers must follow the current procedure that is laid out and allows us to comply with the current state and local laws. Thank you.

Councilmember Kwon. Thank you so much, Chair Murano and Chair Hudson. Can you expand? Because I would like to know the difference between which state and local laws you are referring to and what is HPD— sorry, DHS policy. Sure. Right. So there's a DHS policy, and we can share this policy. It's called DHS PB 2026-001. So we can provide that to council.

And it is one of the ways that we are requiring with State Social Services Law 136. Could you read the laws so that the public can hear? Because there seems to be a lot of different opinions I would have to look up that law in order to read it to you here. Is there someone on the staff who could make sure that before this testimony time ends that we can have this publicly read on record?

What I'm hearing is it is a pretty lengthy law, and we could send— we could send it to you. We could cite that for you so you can— everyone can read it on their own. And can you help me understand what is the necessary paperwork that was signed by Chair Hudson? It is the nondisclosure agreement that we ask anyone to sign who is— that we ask certain visitors, and that's most visitors, to sign who are visiting the site.

So if we sign an NDA agreement, how are we supposed to talk publicly about the atrocities that we see inside? No, thank you again for allowing me to clarify that. The NDA is— and the laws are strictly about the people who stay there. They are not about tarps or food or any building conditions you might see. If you see what you view to be, you know, showers that are not respecting people's privacy, if you see a ramp that you do not think is ADA accessible, if you see— food that you don't think is edible or at the quality we should be providing, you can absolutely report that.

We just, of course, have to protect the people who are staying there, and that is the entire purpose behind the DHS protocol as well as those laws. Okay, so when we come for a visit and we have signed an NDA, as long as we don't disclose the individuals who are currently residents of the shelter, we can speak publicly about the atrocities atrocities that we have witnessed during our oversight visit.

Absolutely.

Okay, and then, um, the next question that I had was for the $4 million differential, like the delta that is going to now be $1 million in funding. And I want to echo the sentiment that Chair Hudson has said, that we want to respect trans service veterans as well as women who serve And we support that. But I want to understand why it is that the veterans themselves are the ones being punished for this disagreement.

Yes, thank you again for the opportunity to clarify that. Nobody is being punished for this. The city is covering the full cost of the— So for the $4 million differential? Yes, the city is covering the full cost of the shelter. Okay. So the $4 million that we're no longer getting from the federal government will now be part of the city's budget?

And would that be coming from DSS or will that be coming from the Veterans Committee? I mean, agency. Which agency will the allotment be through? DHS is responsible for funding the shelters. And we will release, of course, in a future financial plan the exact expenses of the shelter over the next year. But to reiterate, DHS is covering the full cost.

So could you say the amount? Because currently in your testimony it only says the $1.3 million. We are— we have been alerted by the veterans that it's a shortage of $4 million total. That is the differential from previous year's funding to now for this shelter. Yeah. The numbers are a little bit confusing, right? So the grant— is this mic on?

Yeah, still okay? Okay. The grant was covering 154 beds and we could claim up to $4 million, right? So the way this works at the city level is the city pays upfront for the cost of the shelter and then we claim as much federal dollars as we can, right? Yeah. And so the grant allowed us to claim for up to 154 beds and up to $4 million, right?

The revised award if we had accepted it, would allow us to claim for up to 44 beds and up to $1.3 million. And as I said, we will, we will report out as we, as we do and as OMB always does, the, the expenses as we move into the next year. But we are committed to cover it, and it's DHS and not Department of Veterans Services who is required— who will be covering the entire cost.

Okay, thank you for the clarification. I just have one last question. Could you help me understand about the lack of nutrients and food that is available. And this is not an individual shelter problem for ICL at Borden Avenue, but I hear this also for other ICL shelters in my district in Long Island City. So what is happening?

Because I'm also hearing conflicting information from what Chair Hudson just testified or put on record about the use of kitchen, because we have multiple veterans that complain to my office that they have no kitchen access whatsoever. That they're not allowed to bring outside food into the shelter. And also hundreds of them will continue to say that they have malnutrition because they're not getting enough food.

So can you help us understand what's going on with the current kitchen usage as well as their, their diet, their food and nutrients, and what is the per diem per meal per day so that we can get a very clear understanding of what is the caloric nutrient requirement per meal for ICL at the shelter for a grown man?

Yes, thank you. And thank you to Chair Hudson for doing important clarifications that I had not done. And I will, before this question ends, I would like to turn it over to the Deputy Commissioner to add any detail. And we may need to, we'll see, we may need to get back to you on exactly what those per diems are.

But I agree with Chair Hudson there. This is a bit of a systemic issue, right? The issue of food and the quality of food in our shelters is governed by a number of different rules, including the New York City health and safety standards and food standards that we must comply with. And we do monitor too. So that monitoring is happening.

The chair is correct that in no shelter across the Department of Homeless Services system where people permitted to cook their own food. That said, I have not visited nearly as many shelters as I would like to, but in my time here, which has only been a couple of months, but I have visited a number of shelters, and there is variation here, right?

For example, Chair Hudson and I talked to somebody last night who had just been at a different shelter and was talking about the food quality differential. I do think, as I have testified to and answered questions about that we can do more to improve the food quality at Borden in particular, and that there are other systemic issues that we do need to look at in terms of the food.

I will turn it over to the Deputy Commissioner to see if she has anything additional to add there. Commissioner, it actually does seem like your mic is a bit low. I'm not sure if that's a volume issue or if it's a facing mic issue. Thank you. Yes. So just to piggyback on what Commissioner Dalton indicated is that, yes, we are required not only at Borden but across the entire shelter system to follow New York City food standards.

So that monitors the caloric intake, sodium, et cetera. So I absolutely agree with Chair Hudson with respect to the small juices that our veterans or our clients receive. But we are having conversations internally, but also with ICL on how we can help that as well or augment that. So at some of our shelters, we do have microwaves in the cafeteria, which would allow a client to come in and let's say if they want to heat some food up that they purchased from outside, they can do so.

With respect to cooking, you know, I definitely want to be clear that we don't allow cooking at our shelter residence for single men or women. But again, if a client wants to bring in food and they want to eat it in the cafeteria, this would be permissible during the cafeteria hours. And again, if they want to use microwaves, we can have conversations with Borden on how we can help make that possible.

Can you help me understand? So to be clear, you're saying that they can bring outside food into the shelter and it won't be confiscated by the staff of ICL? So, I mean, we have to— clients have to bring in the food and the staff will have to escort them to the cafeteria to ensure that they're not eating in the dorms.

We don't want to create an issue of rodents. So yes, it's having conversations with ICL and with other providers. If they are not allowing this to happen, then these are conversations we can have with our providers. I think that will be necessary because we get reports that their food is confiscated if they bring outside food because they're still hungry.

I thank you for bringing that to our attention, and that is a conversation that we will have with ICL leadership. So for the cooking class that is happening, it was also brought to our attention that the cooking class contract is to the former organization where the CEO used to work. So that seems like a conflict of interest.

But in addition to that, can you please help me understand the cooking class is not intended for the veterans in the No, that's incorrect. Councilmember Wong brought that up as well. Yes, so that's incorrect. We have set aside slots for the veterans to participate in the cooking class if they wish to do so. So how many veterans can participate versus how many are actual residents there?

Because it seems like many of them want to be able to cook their food because they're dissatisfied with the quality of food that they're receiving. Many of them tell us that it's mostly beans of some kind and just rice or some sort of carb. So I want to just be clear. So as far as cooking their meals, the veterans cannot cook their meals.

With respect to participating in the culinary program, we do have slots that are available for those veterans that reside— So how many slots? Unfortunately, I don't have that number. It might be 10 slots. Because my point is that the ratio of slots available versus the residents who want to participate is not enough. And if people outside of the shelter are being able to give— are given access to this cooking class, yet the residents themselves are not, that is a point of conflict and tension for them.

So we don't have reports that indicate that veterans are being turned away from the program or not able to participate in the program. But again, if that's information that you have and you're willing to share, by all means, we'll be happy to look into it. But we will have conversations with ICL because, again, our veterans are allowed to participate in the culinary program because I myself made that clear when we negotiated this, that those that are at Borden can participate and will participate.

Thank you. As long as they have the time in which to do so. Okay. But 10 slots is not enough for the number of vets that we have. We'll come back to you. Can I just have one last question? Who is the contractor for the food at the site? I believe that is Project Renewal. Oh, Healthy Beats.

I'm sorry, I thought you said the culinary. Okay, Healthy Beats. Yes, for all 3 meals per day. Okay, thank you.

I have one quick question before we go back to Councilmember Wong. Going back to the grant issue, a lot of this seems to have to do with the federal government having a policy which was at odds with city and state policy regarding trans veterans and things of that nature. And I understand that it's the city and the state's policy.

I am curious, though, how many trans veterans there are either in New York City or at Borden Avenue. Just to— I understand it wouldn't affect the policy decision to reject the grant money, but I think the public is curious just about how many folks that would affect. Ballpark, if you have. Thanks. And I don't My colleagues at DVS may want to also answer because your question was broader than the shelter system.

What I can tell you is that we do know of veterans who identify as transgender or gender nonconforming in our shelter system, and I don't have the numbers, but we know that does exist. Is there a ballpark number in the shelter system? I don't. Okay. Just to further elaborate, I'll pass that question to my Chief of Staff, Nicole self-identification, as we have mentioned plenty of times in past hearings, has been an issue.

And at DVS, we are doing the best that we can when it comes to providing that outreach support to ensure that specifically when it comes to the LGBTQ community, they can self-identify. I will— and I'll let Nicole further. Before you answer, Ms. Rolando, I am having a tough time hearing all the witnesses at the witness table, and I see that their mic is on and I see they're speaking directly into I don't know if that's an audio issue that we can resolve, but fortunately I know Ms.

Orlando can project. Go ahead. Thank you for the question, and thank you to all committee that are here today. For us, we don't have an exact number for transgender veterans that are here in New York City largely. Looking back to our testimony that we provided in the LGBTQ+ hearing, we are working, as Commissioner mentioned, to make sure that a veteran feels comfortable enough to self-identify as well as looking into what benefits are provided.

So we would be happy to keep you updated with the identification piece of this. Okay.

Councilmember Wong. Thank you, Chair. Commissioner Dalton, can you explain why veterans would need to have bottles next to their bed so they could urinate into, even though the bathroom is a short walk away? Like, what is the issue? Is the bathroom not safe? Or is there some— why would you even allow that to happen? Thank you for the opportunity to clarify.

And while I did not speak with every veteran who was residing at Borden Avenue, I spent, I don't know, 90 minutes or so with a number of folks and have been there over a couple of times over the past couple of weeks and talked to others as well. And nobody has reported to me about safety in the bathroom.

We certainly have heard about the showers where there are real privacy concerns that I agree with and we are fixing. But the actual bathrooms I've seen myself and are typical bathrooms. I didn't— nobody reported that they were nervous or unable to use the bathroom. I think that that notice was just a notice that got put out. Thank you.

It seemed to me that DHS should have people there at these CAP meetings and they should be well aware of these issues that we're discussing today. My question, do you have someone attending these CAP meetings? Please answer. Yeah, I will turn it over to the Deputy Commissioner to answer. So yes, to answer your question, we do have DHS staff that attends the CAP meetings.

But I'm sure these issues were brought up many times because I was told by the residents that they were discussing camp meetings and nothing was done or addressed, is not being addressed, such as not enough food. Look, if there's enough food, nobody will bother wanting to cook there. The reason they want to cook there is because they're hungry.

And it's unacceptable to me that you allow the people in the cooking school to cook smoke, but the veterans there cannot cook. Think about that. All right. Okay. Follow-up question. All right. Follow-up question. Right? There are— your testimony said there are 259 911 calls. Sorry. No, I'm sorry. 419 911 calls. Can you give a breakdown, like, what are the issues that you're dealing with in the Borden Avenue site?

Do you have those numbers? I do. I may be able to pull them up for you in this timeframe, and I may have to report back in a little— in a couple minutes as I look for it. I will say in general terms, a lot of calls, which you could see in my testimony, are down, are related to medical care, right?

People, veterans, others experience medical emergencies just like everybody else, and there are 911 calls for those kinds of issues. But if you will allow me— Yes, I would like to see a breakdown of the 911 calls. Absolutely. We can provide that. Thank you, Councilmember Wong.

Before I turn it back to Chair Hudson, Commissioner Dalton, I do want to take advantage of your Pennsylvania perspective for something. You know, the one— one of the few areas that I think all 51 of my colleagues agree on is that we're frustrated at the pace of New York City capital projects, and I'm just still trying to wrap my head around the fact that it's going to take 3 years to fix a leaking roof.

When you were in Pennsylvania, how long would it take to fix a roof there? Not 3 years, I'm betting. Yeah, I don't— I do not have roof estimates from Pennsylvania, but I— oh look, that's working now. There you go, see? Yeah, however, I share the concern about how long things take and our responsiveness. We have a new DHS administrator, Risa Henderson, and she and I both are looking at the process.

There's of course a citywide process that has has a planning, you know, a planning procedure that is required and funding procedure that is required. But then there's also the piece on our side. What— how are we managing those dollars? How are we prioritizing them? How are we procuring? And we're looking at that entire process from bottom to top to see what we can do to expedite.

We don't like to see our buildings in disrepair and our people struggling under those. Well, let us know how we can help. I think, you know, not speaking for the mayor or the speaker, but I could tell you everybody up here and all the members of my committee, we're committed to doing everything in our purview to making sure that we can help reduce that timeline.

Chair Hudson.

Thank you. I, you know, I am going to belabor the point of the, the NDA piece. The state law that I believe you referenced Social Services Law 136, was that it? Is that accurate? Okay. Because that is the protection of public welfare records. And the first line says the names or addresses of persons applying for or receiving public assistance and care shall not be included in any published report or printed in any newspaper or reported at any public meeting except meetings of the county, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And so that seems to me to be very specific to names and addresses or privacy, personally identifying information for individuals. Whereas in the city charter, Section 29, under power of investigation oversight, it states that the council, acting as a committee of the whole and each standing or special committee of the council, through hearings or otherwise, may investigate any matters within its jurisdiction relating to the property affairs or government of the city or of any county within the city or to any other powers of the council or to the effectuation of the purposes or provisions of this charter or any laws relating to the city or to any county within the city.

Now, I'm not an attorney. I know you're not an attorney, so maybe we can let our attorneys or respective attorneys hash it out. But my interpretation of this is that that we have the authority as members of this body to investigate any matters, as it says, within its jurisdiction relating to the property of any city agency. And I think the law that you referenced is specific to personally identifying records.

And I would also argue that as council members who provide constituent services every day in our offices, we are not sharing personally identifying information, and we have stopgaps and practices and policies within the body that prevent us from sharing personally identifying information for those who we serve every single day. So I would argue that we should have the authority and the ability to make unannounced visits to shelters.

And I know we did one last night, but fully and truly unannounced, the way we see it as— as duly elected councilmembers. So I just wanted to make that point.

And then I wanted to— for Commissioner Mata, you referenced in your testimony strengthening equitable access for women veterans, LGBTQ+ veterans, older veterans, veterans with disabilities, and communities that may face additional barriers to services Can you just share what that looks like? And if someone prefers to be in a different type of shelter environment, what that process looks like if they didn't want to be at somewhere like a Borden Avenue?

And also on the website, it says that Borden Avenue houses both male and female veterans. Can you verify whether that's accurate? When it comes to Borden, I will defer the questions to Commissioner Dalton, to your— there's 2 answers to that. First, to the component of the outreaching that we are doing when it comes to women veterans, LGBTQ+ veterans, and veterans with disabilities, we are working in conjunction with other city agencies such as the Commissioner for Disability, the Commissioner of Aging, to ensure that we have that collaborative effort to outreach properly to those veterans.

We also have held various roundtables to ensure that we can hear directly from the veteran groups as to how we should be outreaching. Further, we also want to thank City Council for funding when it comes to outreaching, and more information is going to come out on that. We just finalized that specific plan. And I will further refer this to my Chief of Staff, Nicole.

But at DBS, further what we are doing when it— our main focus is to be the sole connector. So what we do is our focus is to place veterans into housing, and that is a very rigorous process at the agency. We assess the needs, we develop individualized housing plans, help identify units, arrange viewings, Gather documents, coordinate subsidies and inspections with the responsible agencies, and provide the aftercare component.

So after Nicole explains further the outreach, Donnay Smalls will go further on the aftercare. Thank you so much again for that question. And just to emphasize Commissioner Mata's response as well, we're really focused in this administration under the leadership of Commissioner Mata on veteran feedback on a lot of programming and things that we are doing. This includes the inclusion on our website of a feedback form that a veteran can fill, fill out if they have issues with any aspect that's going on in the veteran community.

This helps us to identify what these issues are and being able to better support, as well as Commissioner mentioned, the collaboration with different city agencies, city council members, so that we can all be in constant communication about these issues that arise, as well as ideas that veterans have. So that includes roundtable discussions. on partnership with our independent board, and just understanding what the community needs.

I'll pass it over to Donnay. Thank you for that question. For the aftercare component, our team supports housing stability and homelessness prevention by maintaining contact with housed veterans and connecting them to services. Scheduled contacts help identify concerns early, urgent housing needs, and addressed as they arise and are more limited to scheduled intervals. Thank you all. And then Commissioner Dalton, yeah, or Deputy Commissioner.

There's not women there. Yes, I'm sorry. Yes, years ago it was a co-ed facility, but on or about 2018, I believe, when we started with the GPD grant, We switched to all males and the women were transferred to another facility under ICL. Okay. I would encourage you to update the website. Thank you. Okay.

Although New York City reduced veteran homelessness by approximately 44% between 2015 and 2025, the number of homeless veterans has increased in recent years, rising from 482 individuals in 2022 to 697 in 2025. What factors have contributed to this increase? What specific strategies is the administration implementing to reverse this trend? And additionally, what policies, programs, or investments were most responsible for the significant reductions achieved between 2015 and 2022?

And how is the administration building upon those successes today? All right. Thank you. I'll start, and my colleagues may very well want to jump in here. And I think, you know, it was a tremendous decline in veteran homelessness across the country. And I think what you saw from both at a national level and federal level, as well as here in New York City, is people just doing the things that they needed to do, providing the vouchers that they needed, prioritizing this population. bringing them into shelter when that was part of the journey and helping them to move on to housing quickly.

I will say that all of us should be encouraging federal investments to be restored for this group. The federal VASH vouchers, which I think in our previous history here were a good percentage of the way people left the homelessness system on that voucher, have declined deeply over the few years. And so while the current veterans who are on those vouchers, the feds will say, are safe on them, the decline for new vouchers has dropped— I have— hold on— 93% from its peak.

So the federal government is really leaving us without specific housing resources for this population. So we as a city are the most generous in the country in terms of providing local funding for rental assistance and payment and support for people exiting homelessness, including the veterans population. And New York City, again, supports veterans and sees them as eligible entities, whether they are in shelter or in community, for programs like CityFEPs.

And so I would say the federal disinvestment— or the federal investment really helped us to reduce homelessness. during that period, and the federal disinvestment is hurting our ability to continue to have those strides. I will say New York City still has one of the lowest, or the lowest veteran homelessness in the country. We find, thankfully, very few people on the street who identify, self-identify as a veteran.

And so to the extent to which folks are homeless here, they are in our shelter system. But I would encourage all of us to look at Thank you. And which boroughs, council districts, or neighborhoods have the highest concentrations of veterans experiencing homelessness, and how is the city targeting outreach and services to those highest-need areas? Yeah, thank you.

So I can answer the question for folks who were in shelter. in September of this year, their last address, right? So I think that, that gets to the answer to your question. So— So that's a borough breakdown? Yep, a borough breakdown. Bronx, 24%. Brooklyn, 23%. Manhattan, 21%. Queens, 12%. Staten Island, 2%. We've got unknown— Sorry, Manhattan was 23%.

Queens was 12%. Sorry, I'll start again. Okay. Bronx, 24%. Brooklyn, 23%. Manhattan, 21%. Queens, 12%. Staten Island, 2%. We do have 17% with no verifiable associated New York City address, and only 1% with an unknown prior address other than shelter. Okay. Great. Thank you. If I can— I'm so sorry. If we can just also interject from what we see from our perspective for veterans who are coming through our doors.

So in the months from July to August of 2026, what we see is that Council Districts 14, 15, and 31, we see the most requests for housing assistance to our agency. Just to provide some more color. For housing assistance specifically in July through August of this year? Yes. Thank you.

Councilmember Wong. Oh, thank you. Sorry. And when you said thank you at the— oh, sorry. Hang tight. I know you got a birthday party to get to, but hold your horses. How are veterans identified when they enter the shelter system, particularly those who do not initially disclose their military service? Yeah, thank you. I'm going to turn it over to the Deputy Commissioner to walk through that.

Thank you. So our veterans self-report at the point of intake. So we have several intake sites, as Commissioner Dalton mentioned, for adult families, families with children, and single adults. Thank you. So our veterans do self-report their veteran status at the intake. However, if a veteran chooses not to disclose at the point of intake, and however they disclose throughout their shelter stay.

Once they arrive to their program shelter and after meeting with their case manager or someone on staff, they share that they are a veteran, we do engage and ask whether or not they wish to identify as a veteran so we can identify them in our system as such. If they agree to do so, if it's a single male, then again, we will transfer that person to Borden or again, wherever shelter they wish to be placed at.

So we do continue to have conversations with our veterans at the point of intake and even while in shelter. Okay, and would you say there are sufficient veteran-specific housing resources, including supportive housing and HUD-VASH vouchers, to meet the current need? So as Commissioner Dalton indicated, the number of HUD-VASH vouchers have declined So the resources with respect to the HUD-VASH, again, the federal government is responsible.

But as it relates to the city subsidies that we have, specifically City4HEPS, we do prioritize our veterans with City4HEPS so they have those vouchers. We also have them complete the CAP survey if they qualify for supportive housing. So between the supportive housing, City4HEPS, CDFAPs. If a veteran is over income, you know, we do assist with the enhanced one-shot deal or the SOTA program.

Again, these are all housing resources that we utilize to assist our veterans in moving into permanency. Thank you. And do you know how many veterans are receiving housing subsidies other than HUD-VASH vouchers, such as one-shot deals or CDFAPs? Yeah, I can provide that. for FY26 for subsidized placements. So for the 414 subsidized placements during that time, 41% were CityFEPs, 26% were HUD-VASH, 20% were supportive housing, another 5% were EOSD or SOTA, 4% Section 8, and other, which includes NYCHA, 5%.

Section 8 was— sorry, how much? 4%. Okay, thank you. And what is the average amount of time a veteran spends in shelter before securing permanent housing? Yeah, I've got that as well. Hold on one sec. I prefer a different— not prefer a different number. I've got to flip over here. So this is data from June 5th, 2026, and I think provides the best look at length of stay.

So the average length of stay, and we can also get you more detail if this doesn't help, is 281 days across the whole system for single adult veterans, It's 285 days. Adult families with veterans, 199 days. Families with children with veterans, 269 days. I'm sorry, can you repeat those again? Yes, I can. Average across the whole system, 281 days.

Adults, 285. Adult family, 199. Family with children, 269. Thank you. I turn it back over to chair.

Councilmember Wong. Thank you, chair. My predecessor, Robert Holden, he funded the computers in the library. He funded the books there. When I visited the site with Councilmember Julie Wan, the room is closed. And then I spoke to the residents, why is it closed? Well, they didn't give a reason. So can you tell me why is it closed and they have no access to the I can report on what I saw and what I heard last night.

So the library is lovely, well-functioning. There's a nice table, there's some nice seated chairs, and there are books around the corners, around the walls. That is the place that I held a listening session with residents, and they absolutely came in and out and used that room. Also, last night when I was with Chair Hudson on an unannounced visit, there was a— I heard over the loudspeaker an announcement that a movie was being shown in the library.

And so those 2 things indicate to me that the library is very much functioning and in use. Okay. So you're telling me that residents do have access to the library and then the materials— as well as the materials inside? That is my understanding. And my testimony is based on those 2 things that I— I did find the 911 you if you'd like it.

All right. Well, I was told a very different story, that they have no access. So if I'm glad that these visits will allow these facilities to be open again, that's good news, right? So that's my question, Chair. Thank you. Thank you.

I have a number of questions, but I want to be respectful of the members of the public that have been waiting here for 2 and a half hours to share their perspective on what's going on not only with Borden Avenue, but on a lot of the legislation that we're considering today. But Commissioner Mata, before we, before we wrap, you described an extensive process involving vouchers, apartment inspections, documentation, approvals, and multiple agencies.

Can you tell us the median number of days between a veteran first requesting housing assistance and actually moving into permanent housing? How long does the whole thing usually take? Thank you for that question. I'll pass it on to my Associate Commissioner, Donniece Moss. Thank you for that question. The median can take anywhere between 7 months to 8 months for a veteran to move into permanent housing.

Each situation or each circumstance is different depending on what this veteran has, if he has— he or she has documentation. Coming into shelter, if they do not have any documentation and we have to help, then that time period makes it a little bit longer. But my housing team walks through that process with them along with DHS and our community partners to get the adequate documents that they need to move into permanent housing.

So for that 7 months, which step usually takes the longest amount of time? And is there anything we could do to reduce that? It can be the documents. The documentation, because most veterans could come into a shelter, they might not have a birth certificate, they might not have a Social Security card or a photo ID, and in order to get those, you need one or the other.

So that can take an extensive amount of time. I know because I've helped many veterans try to get their documents. I've also walked through the steps with them. So So just getting their legalization documents can take a lot— a long time. And then once they get that, it can move a little bit faster. But then, you know, we have to go through the different agencies to move forward with housing.

Commissioner Dalton, hearing from 2 distinguished female veterans brings me back to your conversation earlier about women veterans in the shelter system. Your testimony said that 55 women veterans were in shelter as of last week. Currently, New York City doesn't have a shelter exclusively for women veterans. I'm wondering if DSS has assessed whether women veterans would benefit from a dedicated facility or some sort of specialized programming, particularly people that might be dealing with military sexual trauma and everything that comes with that.

In my time here, we have not assessed that, or at least that I'm not— I'm unaware if we had. But I think it's an excellent point, and we can take a look at that issue as we think about the system and system capacity going forward. It's a relatively small number, but I understand the perspective for sure that veterans and female veterans may also have special sets of circumstances and needs that could be served well in one facility.

We do have— we do, as we testified, have 2 facilities that have set-aside unit spaces for female veterans where we do consolidate services. It is run by the same provider that has veteran expertise on the single adult male side. Thank you. Deputy Commissioner, do you have anything to add to that? Yeah. So I just want to speak to historically, we've always had relatively low women veterans in shelter.

So we saw an uptick as recent as maybe 12, 18 months ago, but the number of female veterans in shelter has been between 30 or below, hence why there's never been a dedicated shelter specifically for them. But as Commissioner Dalton pointed out, and as you pointed out as well, perhaps this is something that we should definitely revisit as we start to see the numbers of women coming into the system.

I would venture to guess that the number of transgender veterans is also relatively low, but that still was enough to have us opt out of $1.4 million of federal grant money. So even if there are only 30 or 40 or 58, female homeless veterans, if we could find facilities to make sure that they're accommodated and getting the services they need, I think that's an investment that taxpayers should certainly be interested in making.

But my last question for Commissioner Dalton: you testified that you personally participated in a listening session with about 20 Borden Avenue residents and received mixed or negative feedback about building conditions, food, security services, a lot of the things that you That you've referred to. What were the 3 most serious complaints that you heard directly most from those veterans?

And I'm wondering, have there been any concrete changes that have been made in response? I know you mentioned the possibility of bringing in military chefs to address the food issue. Has there any— has there been any specific changes that have already been made? as a result of that listening session? Yeah, thank you. Thank you for the question.

I think the complaint we heard the most about was the issue of the food. And so as I testified, we're working with ICL, thinking about what we might do with the existing provider and informing meal planning and talking more with with the veterans. And we're looking at other options too, which I testified would include procurement that could allow us to use the commercial kitchen that is right there in front of folks.

And I didn't participate, but I know that the ICL leadership had a house meeting with the veterans last evening and reported back some of the things that we heard and the changes that were were being made. I mean, it shouldn't have taken a lot of discussion to fix the shower issue, particularly if that has been raised for a long time, but we are absolutely taking action on that.

I think that's an important step. And then something that I— we haven't touched on all that much, but we are looking at, is just the issues around security and DHS working in partnership with IACL to ensure that we have the most up-to-date trainings, that DHS police support as necessary, and so that we can ensure that there's— even though I am pleased to see all of the 911 calls down and the incidents down and complaints down, there's always more we can do to ensure that folks are safe.

My final question is, when I visited Borden Avenue in the library, there was a portrait of somebody on the wall. At the time, nobody knew who that person was. Has anyone figured out who's on the wall of the library at Borden Avenue? Library? No? Yes, there was— there's a staff at the facility who identified the gentleman, though I don't recall.

But the gentleman has been identified. We'll be sure to report back. We're going to find out the identity of that person so everybody knows. He was somebody who funded— he funded the library, something like that. Yeah. Commissioners, thank you very much for your testimony. Deputy Commissioners and Chief of Staff Orlando, certainly. Thank you all very, very much.

All right. In a moment, we are going to open the hearing for public testimony. As far as I'm concerned, this is the absolute most important part of the hearing. As interested as I am in hearing from the administration, I'm much more interested in hearing from the public. I want to begin by thanking everybody for their patience in waiting here, whether they're waiting to testify in Zoom or especially everybody that made their way here in person.

But a lot of my colleagues and I have a lot of questions, and we wanted to make sure we asked them, and hopefully that'll inform your testimony as way as well. For anybody that— for anybody that can't testify, that can't stick around, feel free to submit testimony in writing as well. As far as, you know, Chair Hudson mentioned earlier the tradition of council members grandstanding on occasion.

As somebody that's been accused of grandstanding more than once myself, I can promise you that I will stay and listen to every last person from the public that has made their way to testify here today, and that everybody that can't stay that submits testimony in writing, I can promise you I'll be reviewing every single person's testimony in writing as well.

With that, I will remind members of the public that this is a formal government proceeding and that decorum shall be observed at all times. As such, members of the public shall remain silent at all times. The witness takes— I apologize to that gentleman for not reading that earlier. Sorry. Sorry to him. The witness table is reserved for people who wish to testify.

No video recording or photography is allowed from the witness table. Further, members of the public may not present audio or video recordings as testimony, but may submit transcripts of such recordings to the sergeant-at-arms for inclusion in the hearing record. If you wish to speak at today's hearing, please fill out an appearance card with the sergeant-at-arms and wait to be recognized.

Thank you. When recognized, you will have 5 minutes to speak. A lot of other committees only give you 3. We are giving you 5 to make sure you have as much time as the council members have. And that— please keep your testimony focused on today's topic, veteran homelessness in New York City, or on the legislation that we're hearing today.

We'll hear all in-person testimony first, then turn to Zoom. If you have a written statement or additional written testimony you wish to submit for the record, Please provide a copy of that testimony to the sergeant-at-arms. We'll now call the first panel. I want to welcome Jodi Rudin, the president of ICL, Leroy Belton, a former ICL client, and Ann Marie Foster, the president and CEO of Phoenix House.

Please come on down, be seated, and we will get started.

We have about five. Just everybody's aware, we have about five panels from the public that are going to be testifying, which I think is great. I hope we get twenty-five panels of people coming to testify. I hope I'm here. until midnight tonight listening to concerns, questions, thoughts, opinions from the public. Are we going to still— are we going to have Mr.

Belton and Ms. Foster? Great. Hi. All right, Ms. Rudin, if you want to begin, please do so. First, before you begin, actually, I'll say, you know, a lot of us who are trying to do the right thing by our veterans or people that are in shelters generally, we're quick to complain, and sometimes I'm concerned that that has the effect of people like you or other providers that spend a lot of time and effort trying to help people, that that leads those folks to feeling like their work is not appreciated.

Know that forever, however many complaints I have about Borden Avenue or any other facility, I really appreciate and recognize the work that not only you do but your staff does. Thank you for doing it. Thank you. Thank you to both chairs and for the committee on your leadership in holding this hearing and for shining a light on the issue.

And I want to pick up where Council— where Chair Hudson began. We as a country and a city can do a lot better by the people who have served this country, and we bring that ethos to the work at Borden. I'm proud of the work that we do, but there's always room to improve, and we try to bring a continuous quality improvement lens to the work.

And I too will be staying to hear what everyone has to say. All in furtherance of continuing to try to provide the best services we can. I thought I only had 2 minutes, so I'll take some, some liberties in elaborating as I go. So as you said, I'm Jodi Rudin. I'm the CEO of ICL, and I, in partnership with DHS, am responsible for the Borden Avenue shelter, for the services and supports provided to the veterans who reside there.

And for the staff members who work there. There are structural challenges with old buildings. The city owns this building and is moving ahead, as we heard, with repairs to the roof, which is causing some leaks, but importantly, no leaks where residents sleep. And they are also funding modifications to the showers to add privacy, and we expect to have that work completed by the end of the calendar year.

That's the building. These are the services. We have 231 residents. Last year, we helped move 147 into permanent homes. This year, so far, 111 folks. A permanent home is top priority, and we exceed the city's placement targets consistently. Since January 2026, 55% of clients have gained or maintained employment. and we're supporting others in finding and securing jobs.

Overdoses have declined by 54% compared to 2025. We also help veterans improve their physical and mental health, access public benefits, and partner with the city, with the federal VA, and with external organizations to deliver a host of services and programs. I want to say that when clients arrive, when veterans arrive at Borden, they're assigned a case manager and we work with them on all of their goals, including to achieve permanent housing.

And the average length of stay at Borden is around 8 months. We have housing specialists who do this work. We have employment specialists who support clients in getting employment. We have CASACs and substance use specialists who work with clients on their substance use disorders. We also have Oasis, a state-licensed alcohol and substance use clinic offsite, and we frequently bring those staff, including peers with lived experience, onsite to Borden to support people with their substance use disorders.

We organizationally abide by an ethos of walk alone, go faster, walk together, go farther. I think Borden is a good example of different groups, both in and out of government, coming together to be additive. We get tremendous support from the city's Department of Social Services, from the city's Department of Veterans Services, from other veterans services organizations throughout the city, and our results are additive to one another.

Borden is a 24/7 operation. It does more than provide shelter. It Our 75 staff members work not just to provide a bed and meals, but also all the services veterans need to live dignified lives. We make a point of listening to our residents. We create opportunities for residents to provide input through biweekly meetings, community forums, surveys. 80% of the clients at Borden tell us that they're having a positive experience there.

We also hear a lot of constructive feedback, and we try to act to fix the problems that we hear about. things that are problematic.

You know, we've talked a lot about food, and that is the single biggest complaint that we hear when we get together with the residents of Borden. We have been trying to iterate to get to a good place with food. A couple of years ago, we changed our food vendor from Regina to Healthy Hearts, and we prevailed upon the city to increase our food per diem.

In the immediate aftermath of those changes, we did get good feedback from veterans. Now we're hearing more constructive feedback feedback about the food. People have new concerns. So we're exploring additional changes. We have a monthly surveying process on food. We ask the vendor to throw out meals that are not popular. We do the more popular meals more often.

And as the Commissioner of DSS mentioned, we are in a broader strategic contemplation about improving food more broadly. I want to say there's always room for improvement. Sometimes that requires more funding. I want to shine a light on the people who work at Borden. I'm really grateful to our 75 staff who show up in hazardous weather, in global pandemics, in power outages.

They show up to serve our veterans and to do the best work they can.

I absolutely need to clarify the urine in people's living spaces. There is, first of all, let it be very clear, privacy in the bathrooms, stalls with doors that can be closed. Privacy is not an issue. Issue in the bathrooms. It's not something we've historically heard feedback on. When people are urinating into containers, it relates to a specific medical condition.

And so that's a set of exceptions for people who have medical concerns. And of course, we encourage folks to clean out those containers so that we can provide a clean and habitable shelter. I also want to make clear that food is not confiscated. We have an area, a room where people can bring food and eat from the outside.

We have recently learned from DSS that people can bring food from the outside and eat it in the cafeteria. So we are in the process of creating a process for that. I also lastly want to be clear that the culinary arts training program that we have on site with Project Renewal has capacity for 20 people per cohort.

It would make us thrilled if all 20 were clients at Borden. Last cycle, we had no clients from Borden. Now, this bespeaks the fact that we have a high employment rate and this is a rigorous food training program, but we are always interested in prioritizing clients, residents who live at Borden, the veterans, and would do backflips to do so and would want to talk to you, Councilmember Wong, offline if you've heard from people who aren't getting access to the program.

One thing that comes to mind is it's possible that they expressed interest after the cohort began, so there we would need to wait for the new cohort, but they are always welcome. That is our priority and candidly one of our reasons why we wanted to host this program at the Borden Avenue Residence. Thank you all for your time.

I have a couple of minor questions, brief questions I should say. Just on because it was the most glaring issue I observed when I was there, the leaking and the tarps. Commissioner Dalton indicated that there were about 7 beds that were offline as a result of the leaks. Is that the case, and is that the case even when there's heavy rains and things like that?

Yeah, I mean, it's important for me to clarify that the city owns the building and is responsible for the repairs of the Capitol. The city is in regular touch with us before and after each rainfall to figure out the direction that the rain is leaking into the facility so we can iterate a process around making sure that beds are offline so that people aren't impacted by the rain.

Currently, we have 7 units offline. It's possible that that could fluctuate based on the direction of the rainfall and most importantly, based on the remediation work that the city is doing to patch the roof. In your testimony, you said that there's 231 residents. We've been operating under a 168-resident assumption. Are there more residents, or— Yeah, let me clarify that.

The capacity is for 231 people. Right now, we are currently south of 200. Got it. You talked about 147 veterans who moved into permanent housing. Last year and 111 so far this year. That's really encouraging, and I commend your staff. I'd also like to hear about the veterans who haven't been successfully housed. How many current residents have been at Borden Avenue for more than a year?

How many for more than 2 years? And what's the longest anyone's been there? For the long-staying veterans also, what's the single biggest obstacle from getting them into permanent housing? I don't have the data you're asking for with respect to the longest-staying residents and those who have been here for— Okay, you've got my address. Yes, absolutely. Listen, there are a variety of factors that could keep someone in shelter for longer than they want to be.

Some are restrictions with respect to where they can live based on sex offense or other status. Some are, you know, we work with clients who have complex behavioral health needs and profiles. So sometimes we're working with people over time in more foundational ways to, you know, help them advance their goals around treatment, help them secure the documentation they need to move into housing.

So it can be an elaborate process, but on average, people move out in 8 months. Got it. Thank you. Chair Hudson. Thank you so much. Just a couple of questions as well, um, and apologies if you already mentioned this, but when did ICL take over the contract at Borden Avenue? 2008. 2008, okay. And, um, when did you first notify DHS or DSS of the roof issues?

I don't have a date to give you, but we have been in an ongoing protracted discussion over the course of many years with the city about the roof. And they informed us some number of years ago that it was in the city's capital plan. Okay. Would you say it dates back to 2008? I would be hard-pressed to say that, but it has certainly been an ongoing topic for many, many, many years.

Okay. And— It may well have been dated back. It may well have dated back that far, I just don't know. Okay. That's fair. Thank you. And then, when did ICL first notify DHS or DSS regarding concerns with the shower facilities and privacy conditions? Yes. Similarly, this has been an ongoing conversation over an extended period. We, as you can imagine, we're, you know, DHS is our partner and our collaborator.

And we also, one feature of our relationship, and this is not unique to ICL and Borden, It's the case across our portfolio of shelters. I imagine my colleagues would say it's the case for them. Advocating, raising challenges, and advocating for more resources for the people we serve is a permanent feature of our relationship. So in both the case of the showers and the roof, these have been ongoing conversations that have played out over, over time.

And when were you notified of, um, that the funding was secured for both the And shower improvements? We had been notified in the last couple of years that the roof was in the capital plan. We did not know the funding amount and we did not know the timeframe until the last many weeks. And the showers too, our new need was approved to hire the vendor in the last couple of weeks.

Sorry, I have one last question. What categories of repairs or facility improvements can ICL authorize and complete independently without prior DHS or DSS approval? Yeah, I, you know, because it's their building, we tell them we bring all physical plant issues to them, and then there are more superficial things that we— that they allow us to do on our own.

Can you just give us some examples of what that might be? You know, I'll give you an example. We were like, we want to hang shower curtain rods right now in the bathroom. And they were like, no, like, we have some structural concerns about that. Let's go through this process of getting bids. And so we figured out how we could expedite it and plan to have it done by the end of the year.

But they intercede. They have Capitol experts that we don't. It's their building. They know it better than we do from a Capitol standpoint. You know, I would be guessing. I want to say painting and some superficial things like that might be in our purview, but I need to be clear that that's a guess. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Chair.

Thank you.

Ms. Foster. Oh, I apologize. I didn't realize I wasn't told you had Hang tight. Councilmember Wong. 3 questions. Yeah. Ms. Jody Rudin, you're based out of 125 Broad Street, is that right? Yes. How often do you visit the Borden Avenue facility? Multiple times a year. It depends. Some years I've been there a dozen times, some years fewer times.

It varies. When was your last visit? Last night. Okay. So I have 2 questions. Can— when I was there with Councilmember Julie Wan, there were residents there who told me they have no access to the computers and no access to the library. And there's a gentleman that walked out a couple minutes ago before you testified that they still have no access to the computers.

Now, it's my understanding that that the part of the contract is to have computers there so veterans could use them. So can you tell me why that they cannot— they have no access? Absolutely. And I appreciate your question. And we enjoyed what I think was an enormously productive relationship with Councilmember Holden. And we are ever grateful for his investments in the facility, including at the library.

The library is open on a 24/7 basis. There may be some specific exceptions to that if we're— if there's a meeting or if we're hosting visitors, but in the ordinary course of business, it's open on a 24/7 basis. There have been a few things that you've said or that I've heard on the panel that just aren't true, and I would love a rela— I would welcome a relationship where you're bringing those issues to us so we can figure out the source of the disagreement or misunderstanding and fix it immediately.

So the residents now have free access to the library and the computers? Is that right? Absolutely. And hearing that this has been a source of misunderstanding, we'll post flyers just to clarify the hours. Wait, finally, I raised the question before. Could you answer how come the culinary school could use the cooking facilities there but not the veterans?

Yeah, thank you. This was another point I wanted to clarify, so I'm grateful for the question. So the Culinary Arts Training Program has cohorts of 20 people at a given time. That number is determined based on the size of the kitchen and how many people can comfortably fit. There is no cap on the number of people who can part— the number of veterans who can participate from Borden.

If we had our druthers, all 20 would participate from Borden. In this current cycle, we don't have any veterans from Borden in the cohort. So we would love your support in drumming up interest. No, my question was, When they say the cooking classes are not in session, how come the veterans have no access to the facility to cook their own food or eat or to heat up their own food because they're hungry?

Yeah, so I think actually both Chair Hudson and our colleague from DSS, Sonia Russell, clarified it is not customary for people who live in shelters to access the commercial kitchen for their cooking use. It is incumbent upon us to provide them 3 meals a day consistent with the New York City food and nutrition standards. So I've never heard of a scenario where people living in the residence would access the commercial kitchen.

Now, we have heard feedback on, can we have an air fryer? Can we have more microwaves? And that is something that we're working on bringing into the cafeteria so that people can have more autonomy around bringing in food, heating up food, but it's not traditional practice to let people gain access to the commercial kitchen where there's all sorts of mechanicals that they may or may not know how to use and would introduce, I think, health and safety concerns.

Thank you. I'll be in touch. Yeah, I genuinely look forward to it. Thank you. Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Ms. Foster. Thank you for your patience.

Good afternoon, Chair Hudson and Chair Moreno and members of the General Welfare and Veterans Veterans Affairs Committee. My name is Annemarie Foster. I'm the President and CEO of Phoenix House of New York and Long Island, and I'm here to testify about the importance of veteran-specific programs and our collaboration with the Borden Avenue Shelter. Phoenix House has been around since 1967.

We help New Yorkers— we have helped thousands of New Yorkers, people who struggle with substance use, individuals who are veterans, and they— alcohol abuse, and we help them lead healthy and what we call rewarding lives. Phoenix House also runs residential programs specifically for veterans. It is located outside of the city, but there are several other agencies that do the same for residential and outpatient specifically for veterans.

Right now, as has been said previously, New York City is currently spending millions on services for homeless community members, and even as more New Yorkers are sleeping on the streets than ever before. That figure includes about 625 homeless veterans. Behavioral health challenges touch New Yorkers across every housing status, but state estimates suggest that up to 10% of residents experiencing homelessness also live with a substance use disorder and severe mental illness.

And for veterans who may also carry the effects of service-related trauma, Those needs can be especially acute. Housing is essential, but for many Veterans, it is not enough on its own. Without treatment for the conditions that often accompany or contribute to homelessness, people struggle to stabilize, keep their housing, and move forward. Too often, the pathways between shelter, outreach, Veterans services, and behavioral health programs are fragmented, and a veteran who is ready for care can wait too long or fall through the cracks between systems.

That is why veteran-specific care matters, and that is what we see when we work with the clients that come from Borden Avenue. We work with ICL's team to provide residents at Borden with holistic programming focused on the unique needs of veterans seeking treatment. We have a specialized team of experts and medical staff dedicated to providing trauma trauma-focused treatment, including individual counseling, group counseling, social and recreational activities, and skill development.

These services are located at our Long Island City outpatient residential program, and our experience shows that programs designed specifically for veterans work the best. We are both able to deliver services to our veterans because of support from the state. We are contracted through State OASAS, and city investment dollars dollars from, like, our opioid settlement partners and federal dollars from our SOAR grants.

And these events— investments the city makes in Borden are critical for the success of the people who reside there. Again, we said it before, our veterans put their lives on the line to protect us. We owe it to them to do our best to support them in their recovery, and the work that is happening at Phoenix House and partnering with agencies like Borden can help connect our veterans to the services that they need.

So thank you for considering my testimony.

Thank you very much. All right, at this point we'll call up our next panel: Carmelo Stewart, Charles A. Warner, Philip Venticingue, Rodney Sims, Matthew Weth, and Robert Pohl. Come on down. And if Leroy Belton is here, we'd be happy to hear from him. He was part of our first panel, but I don't know if he had to step out or he had to go.

But Mr. Belton, if you're around, come on down. But if you're not around, then we'll hear from Mr. Stewart, Mr. Warner, Mr. Venticingue, Mr. Sims, Mr. Weath, and Mr. Poles. Thank you. All right, irrespective of the order that I called you in, why don't we begin with Mr. Poles and then we'll go we'll go left to right and just announce your name for the record and you can begin your testimony.

Are you in the panel that I just called? Please have a seat. Feel free. Right there. See now he screwed up my left to right modus operandi. Oh, I'm just starting. Okay. You called my name last. All right. It doesn't matter what order I called your name. We'll go Mr. Poles, and then we'll go left to right and then double back.

Okay. Go ahead.

Good afternoon. My name is Robert Poles. I am an independent veterans advocate. I'd like to thank all of the participants here today. My intention today was to rely upon Yes. The VA determination, the actual report from the VA, and I also communicated with the VAGPD office. Neither are willing to provide any report regarding the reduction of funding of the BAVR except through FOIA, which is currently not available.

My information is that the information from either office will not be available until December. The other issue that I had was New York City DHS not having a dedicated residence for women's issue, which is a minor issue here, but it's been a large one. On August 24th, I distributed an introductory proposal. Again, not having the information which I've received here today with regard to DHS and also DVS and DSS documentation provided today, I will refrain from presenting that until I have some specific statistical and actual reports, particularly the legal aspects of the access to Borden Avenue by the Council of New York, as well as VSOs and other issues, because that has been a major problem.

I'd like to thank everyone. Bye-bye. Thank you, sir.

Yep, go ahead. We're good. We're good. Boop boop boop boop. Yep. Close to the mic, if you would. There you go.

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. My name is Rodney Silas. I'm gonna start with all praises due to Allah. First of all, I'd like to thank Dr. Cleopatra Brown, Donnie Smalls. Denise Covington and Mr. Fowler. I was displaced November 2025. By June of this year, I have my own apartment now, and I'm grateful. I went there, I handled my business, and they took very good care of me.

Now, I also received services from James J. Peters Hospital for PTSD. And a military-related injury. My process, I handled my business, and they went beyond the call of duty to help me, and I'm grateful. You know, I really don't have much to say because I get emotional, you know, because I've never been in a situation like this.

So I thank all of y'all. That's all I have to say. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you for sharing. Go ahead, sir. Good afternoon.

My name is Charles Warner. I'm a Navy vet who was honorably discharged in May 2000. I came back home to New York City to deal with family issues, and as I became Unemployed in another state. When I came back to New York, I was immediately looked into the process of how how to get my own place, get established on my own feet.

And what I've come to find out is that you that I was already homeless the entire time I was living in New York because I didn't have a place of my own. According to Regulations. Regulations or laws or whatever the stipulations were. The requirement to get services to become a housed veteran means that you have to be documented as not having a residence of your own.

You have to be documented of being on the street or being in a shelter. I came back here in February 2009, and I was living in my parents' home from February 2009 until my father's death 3 years ago. Because of that, I was technically homeless, but I was still in a house because— and unattainable of getting services.

Because I had a roof over my head, but I was still homeless. So I actually had to go into dire situations where I ended up getting evicted from that residence because the income I was earning from my job as a security guard, by the way, at homeless shelters for veterans, I mean, at homeless shelters for migrants, okay, that I couldn't afford my own place, that I ended up going from working as a security guard in a shelter for migrants to live in my own shelter as a veteran.

That's an oxymoron. And then every time I spoke to a person at ICL, about my plan to get out of the shelter system, there was not a single person interested in what my plan was. No one in the entire time I was there from August to April asked me what my plan actually was. I would— my initial Yeah.

My initial caseworker was no longer working there just a week into the time of helping me. For whatever reason, his employment there was terminated, and he was replaced, and I was added to the itinerary of another caseworker. Who was, frankly, was blatantly rude to me right from the start. Because what Ms. Berry did is that she apparently was looking all over the shelter for me, unaware that I had a job that was not earning enough money as security.

I was also just started back as a part-time student to complete my bachelor's degree. And at the same time, I was also independently looking for a place to live. And she was expecting me to stay in the shelter waiting for whatever services because she said she was looking all over for me. Mind you, I had a cell phone that was in service and I also had email and they had all of this contact information, but she could not find me. me because she didn't see me in my cubicle.

Also, she made it blatantly clear whenever she had an issue with me to go public with it because she will have these conversations with me right there at the security entrance. But when I'm in the back in her office and speaking up about these issues, I need to quiet down because people might hear. But she's going to be blatant and obvious right there in the doorway with me.

Also, whenever— the last time I dealt with her, she actually had called one of our colleagues over into my rooming area as a witness, as if I'm going to get hostile. But she's the one causing the hostility. Mr.

Warner, one, thank you for your service to the country. Second, thank you for being here today. I appreciate you waiting a couple hours to testify and share your perspective. And I know how difficult it is to hold down a job and look for housing simultaneously, and to do that while you're in the circumstances of being in the shelter, I can only imagine how challenging that, that must have been for you, and I appreciate you sharing that perspective.

Without further mentioning one specific caseworker, I'm wondering if you can speak to how you made it out of the shelter system in general, and if what you experienced is a result of one or two bad caseworkers, or if it's a systemic problem with ICL and something that they can improve upon. Obviously, it doesn't do you any good if you're on the receiving end of a poor caseworker, but I'm wondering if there's a systemic problem that we can try to fix to make sure others aren't in the same position that you were.

Good question. It is systemic because in part you got people that are overstressed from being too much— of having too much of a caseload. Another thing is you don't have people there that are open-minded to hearing your situation. This panel has spoken about us being veterans and our individual situations being different. But they want to hear specific things that they don't— they're not willing to hear the specific needs of the individual.

They want to collectively umbrella us all together in one scenario. I actually have a specific scenario of how I got into this situation that I was in, same as the gentleman that was right beside me. He had— but we're clumped together in the same scenario when it comes to receiving services. You're in permanent housing now? Yes. Thank goodness.

Okay, let's stay in touch. I'd love to stay in touch even offline after the hearing ends. Thank you very much.

Yes, sir, grab a microphone and please identify yourself and get started when you're ready. My name is Matt Weth. I was honorably discharged from the Air Force 2005. I had the honor Unfortunate fortune of ending up at the Borden Avenue, as they call it, Veterans Residence, which I'd like to start right there. That's an open insult, the name of the facility.

It's not a residence. At best, it's a holding facility. If I'm being honest about it, it feels much more like a detention facility. You asked my fellow veteran over here whether it was is a couple issues are systemic. I like that I can look at Jodi Rudin while I say this. It's decidedly systemic. Your organization's idea of what constitutes organizational management is an embarrassment to the concept itself.

The problem is from the top down, and it's just rot exposed at every level. I have management experience, unfortunately for me, because I can see glaringly You say lack of oversight? Like, yeah, lack of oversight at every level. The lowest-ranked employees there, if you will, the bulk of the staff effectively operates with no supervision. I couldn't tell you what their duties are supposed to be collectively.

They use their numbers to abscond from responsibility. I can tell you, if you walked in that facility right now, you wouldn't have to even be able to get in. If you just went in those double glass doors and looked, because you can see the desk, you know from experience, uh, Councilperson Marano, you can see what's going on in front of the, you know, beyond the double glass doors.

I can guarantee you there are at least 3 or 4 people sitting in that office behind the desk socializing, doing nothing, and they're probably all supposed to be doing something. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. And there's no management. Nobody is watching them or holding them accountable at any level for their lack of doing anything, and it's a complete embarrassment.

It's a nightmare from top to bottom in an organizational sense that I was there last week at Julie Wan's attempt. I saw Councilperson Wong there as well. Julie Wan's pitiful attempt to enter the facility. I say pitiful attempt because. Because from what I can gather, it was her first attempt since she took office. I'm a veteran. If I'm showing up somewhere that I'm not 100% sure I can just walk right in, I'm going to test that out beforehand so as not to avoid the embarrassment that she walked right into.

That was really embarrassing, frankly. That you guys can't just get it together and get her in there whenever she needs to says a lot. How's that? I'll let that one speak for itself and let everyone else draw their own conclusions. It's a nightmare. Do you want— you want to hear about the conditions inside the facility, outside of the obvious ones that we all harp on, like the leaky roof and the kitchen?

Yeah, we've thoroughly beaten those horses, and those need to be addressed. How about the fact there are no windows in the facility? It's a residence, right? Oh, there are windows that run around The top of the asset. That's not— it's not a living space. It's a warehouse, or it was a manufacturing facility, poorly repurposed. Those cells, that's a room for a human to live in?

Are you kidding me? 9 by 6? Yeah, Julie Wan did talk to me outside the facility, and she, uh, used some of the information that she gleaned from our conversation when she spoke to the press. She brought up the fact that our cells were smaller than is allowable by law for New York State prisons. Oh yeah, she just pulled that out of nowhere.

She took that from me. I gave her the numbers: 9 by 6. Great, she got a soundbite. She also used the term Dickensian to describe the conditions. To anyone who's not Uh, culturally up to speed, that's a reference to The Wire, season 5. Scott Templeton, the, uh, lying reporter who fabricates a story to add to his own largesse, uses the term Dickensian when he's selling the story to his editor.

And his editor fawns over the term. Oh, yes, emphasize the Dickensian aspect. Now, the whole point of that scene is to illustrate that politicians like— or the people in charge like to sit there and verbally pat themselves on the back in their efforts while completely missing the point. Dickensian indeed, and still no progress. Yeah, Dickensian. Rooms without windows and ceilings.

Do you know what the sound environment is like in a tin box like that? You can hear everything within a 50-foot radius. It echoes. The specific issue that I had during my time— that I did not have one night of decent sleep in that facility. 6 months straight of sleep deprivation. That's beyond inhumane. That's abusive. There's a lawsuit forthcoming because I have receipts.

I contacted Julie Wan's office. I took a picture of the rules that I signed off. I have receipts on all this, by the way.

Mr. Weth, one, I'm very sorry for your experience. I don't accept your apology. I appreciate the sentiments. Two, I appreciate your service very much. Thank you for your service in the Air Force. If you're sitting where we're sitting, I think everybody here really wants to improve conditions. What's the first item that should be on our agenda? What should we do?

This is the suggestion that I had. I had a good answer for that, and I'm almost loath to give it now after having shown up and witnessed these proceedings. I'll still give the recommendation, but I don't think I'll attach my name to it or volunteer, or volunteer myself. You need a veteran paid on staff who has been through this, who knows the issue from both sides, who can report not only to you but to the public, who can make the public aware of this whole issue.

Uh, not only all the malfeasance and deterioration that's going on, but hey, it's an opportunity for good PR for you guys too, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you, Mr. West. Yeah, yeah, you're very welcome. Welcome. Uh, I'd volunteer for that position, but again, my qualifier, like, okay, how's this? Councilperson Marano, yeah, earlier at some point you said you've been accused of grandstanding before.

Oh really? What, after I had to sit through half an hour of thank-yous and hellos and congratulations so everyone can hear their name? Boy, We live on grandstanding around here, huh? That would never fly in the military. We don't have half an hour for that. Mr. Weth, I hope we can stay in touch. I understand the politics.

Please. No, I hope we can stay in touch. I do want to get to these other, other panels. Oh, okay, so I see what's going on here. Pardon? I'll give you my number and my email, and we'll stay in touch. Am I getting cut off here? Well, yes. Is this the gaffe? Yeah, we're giving everybody 5 minutes.

Oh, that was 5 minutes already? It was about 10 minutes, but we are giving everybody 5 minutes to try to accommodate anything they want to say. It took a couple hours waiting to get— I appreciate it. And I don't want to take over anyone else's time. I appreciate it. I appreciate it. I've been very flexible with the time.

Thank you, sir, and thank you for your service. Thank you, gentlemen, for your perspective and for your testimony.

All right, at this point we will call up the next panel. This is a panel of providers. Let me welcome Kristen Miller, Graham Horn, Coco Culhaney and Derek Coy. And I would just ask, irrespective of what you talk about, I actually am one of the few people that still haven't seen The Wire. So if you're going to give away any plot points from any of the seasons of television shows, I would just appreciate it if you would say spoiler alert before doing so, irrespective of the show, even if it's a show you assume everybody has seen.

All right, so why don't we go? We'll go left to right. We'll begin with you. Please identify yourself and get started. Good afternoon. Thank you for holding this hearing. Just turn your mic on and make sure it's nice and close. I'll bring it close. Thank you.

My name is Graham Horn. I'm a coordinating attorney on Nylag Shelter and Economics Division. NILAG also boasts a robust veterans practice, also within our Public Benefits Unit. I would like to personally thank all former and active service members. And I would also like to thank the city administration and commissioners for staying to listen. That's an incredibly welcome change.

We are supportive of Intro 897. Which does not include language encouraging forced removals, but instead calls for continued efforts to offer shelter and warming bus options during cold and severe weather. Forced removals to shelter are violent disruptions that have absolutely no productive consequences. People do not choose to sleep outside. Rather, congregate shelter does not meet the needs of its intended residents.

Thank you. My written testimony describes many fixes to shelter that would work towards the goal of limiting street homelessness, not through force, but by offering a stabilizing and supportive alternative. Chief among them would be to restore trust between street outreach workers and our unhoused neighbors, and also to expand the availability of single and double room placements within our shelters.

Additionally, our buildings. Suffer from enormous structural accessibility issues. Even our new male intake facility is inaccessible. The difficulty of obtaining reasonable accommodations without an advocate's additional support, unavailability of shelter transfers even after violent events, curfew policies, intake onerousness, intense policing, difficulty of bringing emotional support animals even when credentialed into the spaces If our goal is to reduce unsheltered homelessness, we must work through compassion to meet the needs of those who currently cannot accept placement in our shelters.

On our coldest nights, we must offer warmth. Thank you. Thank you.

Hi, I'm Coco Culhane from the Veteran Advocacy Project, and we provide free legal services to veterans focusing on those with mental health conditions. I want to just start where this all kind of seems to have started with the contract. You know, the city should have known anyway, if they didn't, that these conditions were a part of it.

They were published in January 2026 as the terms and conditions on page 2. So it seems that TransVets are being used as cover. And so, you know, would just hope that the city would answer to that, why they applied. Thank you. if they, you know, if those conditions are already there. And they're involved in litigation, I believe, in other areas with federal policy.

So it would be hard to believe that they weren't aware of it. And the other thing is, I'm just wondering why we're not asking more about the performance side and why, you know, what happened. And I understand there are limitations. It's a federal agency, it's contract, but I hope that these questions remain. So part of my organization started out wandering the halls of the VA and Borden Avenue.

And over the years, we've had 518 veterans who have called Borden home for a short while. But I can't tell you the number of other veterans who have said, I'm choosing the street instead. And for 2 main reasons. One, addiction issues. that the reports are that it's very hard to stay sober. There's availability of drugs is difficult.

Um, and then safety. Um, and this is another thing I'm wondering why we're not talking about. There were, you know, in several of the news reports, this report about a sexual assault. I've heard that it was, you know, an ICL employee. Like, why is that not being pursued today? And I'm not saying it happened or not. I have no idea.

But it seems concerning enough that it should be a focus. You know, the conditions are really important. The roof, you know, we've known about a leaking roof for years. And so that's really shameful. But equally as important, if not more, should be safety. And it's just strange that it hasn't been asked about. And so we would just hope that these things are followed up on because we can have these hearings, we can have the, you know, press conferences, But if there's no follow-up, it doesn't matter, and we're back here in a couple of years.

Thank you.

A couple quick questions, Ms. Culhaney. One, thank you for everything your group does. I appreciate it. Just to clarify what you said about the federal grant, so the city— just so everybody understands the chronology— the city was aware of the federal government's policy when it comes to gender and transgender veterans, and then they still applied for the grant knowing of those conditions?

I don't— sorry, let me be very clear. I don't know that. I'm saying that one would think they did because they were published in January and the application went in, from my understanding, in February. So, and they're part of a lot of other conditions that have, you know, in the last 2 years developed, creating a lot of challenges for providers and social services.

And again, my understanding is the city is involved in these things and knows, so one would think that when they applied, they did. I don't know that for a fact. Because you've been following the situation at Borden Avenue for a long time, you've heard a lot of the criticisms and complaints over the years. And the last hearing on veterans' homelessness, I'm betting you're familiar with, you probably were even here.

Have you seen Have there been improvements at the Borden Avenue situation based on what you've heard today, whether it's data or whether it's anecdotal? Do you see things moving in the right direction from your perspective? I have not been there myself personally in the last several years, so I don't feel I'm really qualified to say and would hope that it's really the veterans going through the system that we're listening to.

Mm-hmm. Thank you very much.

Hi. Hi. Good afternoon. I'm Kristen Miller, and I'm Executive Director of Homeless Services United. We are a coalition representing 55 nonprofit organizations who provide homeless services across New York City. I want to thank both Chairs Marano and Hudson for this hearing. I think it's a very important topic, as do our members, and I also very much appreciate your comments in support of the nonprofits who do this work every day. to ensure that people experiencing homelessness have the best experience they can.

I think the issues raised today are rooted in a couple of things. One is about partnership between nonprofit providers that are contracted to do this work on behalf of the City of New York and that partnership with the city. I think the first issue that we've been talking a lot about is the New York City DHS access policy.

It is the legal, moral, and ethical duty of New York City shelter providers to provide the safety, security, and provide privacy of the people they serve and the staff that they employ through established security measures, regardless of the procedures that DHS has put out. It is their duty to do that, right? And while the vast majority of people coming into shelters have very good intentions, sometimes people don't.

And it is the obligation of the shelter providers to make sure that everybody comes into their building has the best intentions, right? So they all have screening processes for ensuring that. So we have to create a policy that is welcoming, a balance of welcoming of the community and also protecting the people who are inside the building. But our members are reporting that the DHS protocol is a hindrance rather than a help.

This is because DHS must sign off on all NDAs before individuals can enter shelters, and the process is then unnecessarily burdensome. To our knowledge, no other city agency has this requirement. This is unique to DHS. And the result is that organizations, volunteers, and others who are eager and willing to contribute to shelters face additional barriers to giving their time and resources.

Some very specific examples that we've heard from our members are that national organizations have been contributing volunteers, supplies like diapers and books, shelter makeover opportunities, have decided to offer their donations of time and resources to other places like New Jersey, Philly, Westchester County, where they don't have these same onerous requirements. yet are still able to protect the, the people inside the building's safety and privacy.

Providers have been prohibited from sister organizations coming on site for health fairs, job fairs, service fairs. Delays and assignments to other city-funded programs for social work interns because the NDAs must go through the university's legal departments, which was taking longer than So social work interns is a— we're so understaffed, we rely on interns all the time, and now we're having a hard time getting permission for them to do their placement at shelters.

Back-to-school events were canceled in August. Donations of diapers, hygiene kits, books were not able to be brought in by the volunteer groups and philanthropy. And these shelter kind of spruce-up days have been canceled. as these, you know, national corporate offices couldn't get to reviewing the NDAs in time. The second issue that we've been talking about is funding.

These buildings, as have been mentioned, are in aging facilities that were not originally intended. Nonprofits get annual budgets. They include maintenance costs, but not for leaky roofs, broken pipes, types, the inflation of food, right? So they have to go to DHS to get more money in the budget. That has to be approved by OMB. Then it has to get into the individual nonprofit's line item budget in order to get paid.

This takes a long, long time. DHS has about 1,900 pending new need requests going back to 2018, totaling at our estimate nearly $1 billion. dollars. Some requests, as we've heard, go back years and years, back and forth, and yet the work doesn't get done. The increases don't get into their budgets that they need to run their programs.

I think overall we need to focus on the people and not the processes, and we have to make sure that the funding gets to the right place at the right time. I just want to note that we are in support of Intro 897. Of course, We want adequate planning ahead of severe weather events, but there's one note of caution, and then I'll finish, is that we are concerned that this will be an unfunded mandate of more work on the nonprofits.

They already operate under hundreds of policies and procedures, so please, whatever you do, take into consideration that it doesn't put an onerous burden on the nonprofit. But that government and nonprofits are working in partnership. Thank you. Thank you very much.

Derek. Good afternoon, Chair Hudson, Chair Marano, and members of the committee. My name is Derek Coy. I'm a senior program officer at the New York Health Foundation. I'm also a former sergeant, United States Marine Corps, and veteran of the Iraq War. It's been unfortunate to hear about the funding loss and issues and shelter conditions for veterans in New York City.

They're experiencing homelessness. But it is encouraging to see so many folks on the council and government, the nonprofit sector, and various advocates coming together to address these concerns because it is clearly needed. After declining nearly 90% between 2011 and 2022 and reaching historically low numbers, veteran homelessness in New York City is rising again. As recently as 2024, the numbers had surged nearly 30%, threatening more than a decade of progress and underscoring the need for renewed investment.

But like most issues veterans face, homelessness is not the sole concern. Veterans in New York City already face rates of suicide approximately 45% higher than our civilian counterparts, but we know these rates aren't evenly dispersed throughout the community. A recent study from VA and Yale researchers offers one of the most comprehensive examinations to date of the link between cumulative social disadvantage and suicide risk among U.S. veterans.

And the patterns were alarming. Veterans in the top 5% of social disadvantage were more than 20 times as likely to report suicidal thoughts or behaviors than those experiencing the least hardship. The associations were even stronger among veterans with a history of mental health conditions. VA's most recent national report on veteran suicide underscores this as well, pointing out that the suicide rate for those with either a diagnosis of homelessness or who have received homeless program services in 2024 was 72 per 100,000, meaning the suicide rate among veterans experiencing homelessness was 118% higher than among those with housing.

Furthermore, patterns of veteran homelessness also differ by gender. Women are the fastest-growing demographic in the veteran community, and at the same time, documented cases of homelessness were greater for female veterans who died by suicide compared to male veterans. These findings reinforce the importance of addressing the social, economic, the social and economic drivers of veteran suicide. And we strongly recommend that efforts to address veteran homelessness also prioritize suicide prevention through expanding and embedding suicide prevention across mental health and social service programs, ensuring all unhoused veterans are screened for suicide risk and referred to appropriate services, exploring options for expanding peer mentorship for mental health, and improving data collection to identify veterans at greater risk.

Thank you. That last point I'd like to harp on because when we're talking about veteran homelessness, the way we define veteran is how we count them. And according to VA, depending on the character of your discharge, if you were kicked out because of your gender identity, sexual orientation, or systemic racism, you might not be counted as a veteran.

And again, when we look at suicide rates for veterans, these are those fortunate enough to have access to VA healthcare. So these numbers are very likely an undercount and not looking at the severity of the situation for the those most vulnerable. We commend the committee's effort to meet the needs of veterans experiencing homelessness and share your commitment to New York City's veterans.

I hope you will look to myself and the New York Health Foundation as a partner and resource for this work, and thank you again for the opportunity to testify this afternoon. Thank you, Mr. Coy. All right, thank you very much.

We will call up our next panel: Michael Matos, Mike Matthews, Anthony Byrd, Sharon White, Mike Munoz and Angel Sanza. Thank you. Why don't we begin with Mr. Matos, and then we'll work that way. Just turn your mic on and keep it close.

Good morning, Chair Murano, Chair Hudson, members of both committees. My name is Michael Matos, and I serve as the president of the Five Borough Veterans. On September 24th, we learned from the press the City of New York had withdrawn from the VA's grant imperdium program, a $4 million a year funding source that has supported the Borden Avenue Veterans Residence for 20 years.

With residents' futures uncertain and both governments blaming each other, we filed records requests with the VA and the Department of Homeless Services on the same day. The VA has since responded. The city quoted us a date of December 30th. What followed exposed failures at every level of the system responsible for these residents. On October 24th— excuse me, on October 1st, we went to Borden for an investigative interview with the press. to hear from residents about how the funding dispute would affect them.

What they told us about conditions inside raised serious concerns, and those concerns reached the city council. That day, council members Julie Wan and Phil Wong arrived to use their oversight authority under the city charter. The administration told them they needed an escort and scheduled an appointment. I stood beside council member Wan as she was verbally berated on speakerphone by the mayor's office for using that authority.

Residents report abuse, inedible food, cramped quarters, broken facilities, and a roof that leaks where they sleep, and a kitchen they are not allowed to use. Some have gone a week without an edible meal. At this time, we are in conversation with the Department of Investigation to investigate the shelter's operator, the Institute for Community Living, and with the city comptroller to audit its contract.

If the operator falls short, the community is calling for a new provider from within the veteran We are also concerned about how the Department of Social Services handles oversight. Before a visit, the department asks elected officials to sign a form it treats as a nondisclosure agreement. Chair Murano shared that form with us. It is a patient confidentiality agreement, not a nondisclosure agreement.

Protecting residents' privacy is important, but using that form to limit what access elected officials can have at a facility does not protect residents. We have also seen firsthand what advance notice makes possible. On October 5th, residents contacted us because they were being pressured to rush a cleanup before the Commissioner of Social Services arrived that evening, a visit that was never announced to the council.

We went to Borden that night with Councilmembers Wong and Kwan and confronted the commissioner directly. That is our central concern with how oversight visits are handled. When the city knows who is coming, problems get covered up instead of fixed. Oversight only works when officials see a facility the way the residents live in it every day. We also recently learned that the Department of Veterans Services has a satellite office inside the Borden Building.

City staff whose job is to serve veterans have been working under the same roof as these conditions. On October 7th, I asked Commissioner Amato directly whether her agency knew. She did not answer the question and spoke only about her agency's role in benefits and services. The commissioner is now our community's last voice in city government. When veterans ask what she knows and what she's done about it, they deserve a direct answer, not to avoid the question as the well-being of these residents hang in the balance.

Finally, the funding. For nearly 20 years, the VA's grant and per diem program has helped pay for this shelter. The city has says it's walked away because the new grant terms would have barred transgender veterans from receiving services. No veteran should be turned away, and we support that principle. But we reviewed the VA's records release with the offices of several elected officials.

Unless that language sits on a redacted page, there is no such requirement. We ask the administration to explain why it walked away from this funding, how much city money will replace it, where that money will come from, and how it will guarantee that no veteran onboarding goes without services. Every level of this system owes our veterans accountability and transparency: the operator, the agencies that oversee it, and City Hall.

Our community is told often that it is valued and honored. We hear thank you for your service at every parade and every ceremony. Borden Avenue shows how little priority our veterans actually receive. We ask this council to hold each level accountable so those words mean something to the veterans living at Borden today and across New York City going forward.

Thank you. Thank you.

Good afternoon, chairs and members of the committees. My name is Mike Munoz. I'm a post-9/11 Global War on Terrorism veteran and the current Veterans Caucus chairman of the New York Young Republican Club and a longtime advocate. I'm not here to ask politely. I'm here to demand accountability. The VA offered this city $1.3 million for homeless veterans at Borden Avenue.

This administration turned down every dollar. Now the taxpayers are covering a bill Washington offered to pay. The VA's own award lists show that grant and per diem beds tied to New York City fell from 154 veteran beds in fiscal year 2024 to just 8 fiscal— 8 in fiscal year 2027. That is a 94.8% decline in listed capacity.

New York State now ranks 21st in the nation in total awarded beds. A drop like this raises serious concerns about whether homeless veterans in this city can get transitional housing at all. The award lists alone do not tell us whether beds actually closed or whether other programs replaced them. That is, that is exactly why this council needs answers.

On October 1st, 2 members of this council went to inspect that shelter. They were kept outside for hours. Inside, they found leaks and tarps hanging near the cots where veterans sleep. Then the mayor's office demanded nondisclosure agreements before council members could tour, and residents say they were ordered to clean the building before the commissioner's visit, a visit the residents were told about and this council was not.

This is not a funding dispute. This is a failure of leadership, and failure has names. In the military, leaders lead from the front. When leadership fails, they are relieved of their command. Here are our demands in 5 points. 1, cancel the contract. The Institute for Community Living was paid to run Borden Avenue. It failed. Not one more dollar.

Commissioner Erin Dalton must resign. Her agency oversees this shelter, walked away from this funding, and left this council standing at the door. Commissioner Yesenia Mata must resign. I respect her service in uniform, but her own department has an office inside that building. On October 7th, she was asked whether her department knew about these conditions, and she could not give a straight answer.

When veterans of Borden Avenue needed a fighter, they had a commissioner down the hall who could not say what she knew. 4, a full audit by the city comptroller of every dollar paid to run Borden Avenue and every dollar now spent to replace the funding this city refused. And 5, open the doors. The Department of Veterans Services cannot be the only way a veteran gets help.

The Department of Veterans Affairs itself gives veteran service organizations space in its own buildings. Give the American Legion, the VFW, the DAV, and every organization willing to serve these veterans space inside Borden Avenue. To this council, you have subpoena power, budget power, and oversight power. Use all three. Get the documents now. Do not let this end with a hearing.

Veterans hold the line. We held it overseas, and we're holding it here. We will be back until these men have what they what they earned. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Matthews.

Hello, my name is Mike Matthews. I'm the co-lead of the Staten Island Service Member and Veterans Task Force, and I have to say that you know the the. percentage of those who've served is increasingly small, and I personally believe that we really need to bridge the gap between the civilian and the military population. However, I'm only going to really address a couple of issues having to do with the funding.

As I understand and how it's been explained, the original contract with the VA was for $4 million. My understanding was the renewal amount was reduced to $1.35 million. That's correct. based on performance. I would like to understand how or whether performance was measured by the VA to result in such a dramatic decrease. Question. I don't understand. Also, in terms of the other issue of the $1.3 million grant not being accepted because it did not— again, I've heard that it did not allow providing service to transgender veterans, the Freedom of Information document received from Five Borough Veterans did not reflect this.

However, there were sections redacted. I would also like to understand whether the refusal of the grant was because of a redacted portion of the grant, which would be interesting to look at, whether it could have resulted from a misreading of the grant's intention, or some other explanation. I did a little research on this, and the VA News reported that back in April of 2025, effective immediately, VA will not offer sex hormone therapy to veterans who have a current diagnosis or history of or exhibit symptoms consistent with gender dysphoria unless Yes.

Such veterans are already receiving care from VA. Such veterans are receiving such care from the military as part of their eligible veterans diagnosed with gender dysphoria. They will continue— eligible veterans will continue to receive comprehensive VA healthcare, which includes preventive and mental healthcare. So the question I'm saying is, it doesn't seem like the VA policy seems to be to continue to treat and assist transgender veterans.

However, the Freedom of Information had redacted information which didn't include that. I don't know what the answer is, but I'm just saying it's a question I think that needs to be addressed. I just also want to mention one thing about ICL. I know they're not here, but I have a question. We know veterans trust veterans, and I wonder if any of the staff on ICL are veterans, and/or if not, are the civilian employees provided with military culture training?

I think I will, I will leave it at that. Thank you, Mr. Matthews.

Sir, just bring that mic close to you so we don't miss a word. How you doing today? Very well. Excuse me. My name is Anthony Byrd. I'm a former veteran. I'm a former resident of Borden Avenue. Okay, I apologize for my attire. I didn't know it was gonna be formal today. You look great. I like the sweatshirt.

Absolutely. Thank you. Yeah, you can't— you got to beat down common sense into people. But I've been to Borden Avenue twice, unfortunately. Fortunately, I met some great people through there. Yeah, conditions in Borden Avenue need improvement, without a doubt. I would say personally, get them a new building. Simple as that. Get them a new building. I had these people behind me right here help me find housing.

Okay? Ms. Smalls, Ms. Ward over here, Sam and Maya. They helped me find housing. You know what I mean? Unfortunately, the landlord doesn't want to renew my lease, so I got to find—I might have to go back to Borden. There's no no telling just yet. But Borden needs improvement, like they say in the shower area, in the cafeteria area, in the food area.

I just left there last December. I've been in my apartment in Long Island City not even a year, and they've sent me a ninety-day notice of termination not to renew my lease. So yeah, Borden Avenue needs help with them showers, with the food. Uh, in my opinion, if you don't like a job, you shouldn't have it. If you like your job, you'll excel at it.

Me personally, when I got into the Army, unfortunately I had KP quite a few times. For who don't know what KP is, it's a punishment. And they used to send me to the kitchen all the time. That started my cooking career. I've been cooking ever since. I don't like nothing else but being in the kitchen. You want to do construction?

Call him. You want to do auto repair? Call him. I don't know. No, no. I'm just saying. I'm just saying as an example. I like kitchens. But no, you can't cook at Borden Avenue. And as of last year, I don't know how the policies have changed, But last year, no, you couldn't bring food into Borden Avenue. They had a little room to the side that you had to eat it in, or you could bring potato chips and cookies in because they had the vending machines.

They sold it anyway. So yeah, you could bring snacks in there, but you couldn't bring cooked food really. You had to sit in the side room and eat it. As far as Mr. Wong was talking about with the culinary arts program, Last year you couldn't get in because I asked. Like I said, I'm a cook. I asked, and no, you couldn't get in.

Policies may have changed between then and now. We'll see. But as far as that's concerned, you have good issues. You have bad issues. There's some that can be addressed, and there's some that can't. You know what I mean? But like this gentleman said, we all need to get together and put our heads to it and see if we can't work it out together.

That's all I have to say. Thank you, Mr. Byrd, and I appreciate really hearing your perspective.

Obviously, I appreciate all of your service to the country, but what you're going through now, in my view, this is exactly when and where the city needs to do a better job with outreach and intervention. I don't think we should be waiting until veterans are homeless or in a shelter before trying to help them, keep them in housing.

So the fact that you are getting some warning that, hey, you might be homeless in 90 days, this is exactly when all the resources of city government should be working to help you. So I want to make sure you have my contact information before you leave here today. Yes, sir. And I'll work with DVS and any other agency that wants to work with us.

Just a point of clarity on the culinary program because that seemed to be one of the areas where there was a little bit of a disconnect. It was your understanding, and as somebody through your KP experience knows his way around a kitchen, it was your understanding when you were at Borden that people that were there, residents, weren't eligible for the culinary training program.

And if I'm wrong, please, they can correct me. What the administration said, what ICL said is that My understanding is yes. The only thing it could have been is maybe you had to wait until a new cohort started, and maybe that was the— I never heard nothing like that. Okay.

Well, thank you. Let me— I'm going to— everyone can ask as many questions as you want, but I just want one question for these 3 gentlemen, and then I'll turn it over to you, Councilman Wong. To everybody there, I thought you all made an interesting case about In the case of Mr. Matos, wanting a provider from the veteran community.

In the case of Mr. Munoz, wanting someone other than ICL. And in the case of Mr. Matthews, wanting someone that understood veteran culture. To the best of your knowledge, is there a provider that comes from within the veteran community that— whether it's for Borden Avenue or somewhere else— that would be a good provider for future veteran homeless services?

If so, what is it? Thank you for the question, Chair Murano. So we are collaborating with multiple different community partners to identify what nonprofit would have the capacity to take this on. A few come into mind. We do understand that the Jericho Project does work with homeless veterans, Services for the Underserved. I understand the Black Veterans for Social Justice also do shelter management.

So we're looking at those as options. that would have an understanding of our community better than a non-veteran entity. Understood. Got it. Anything you want to add, Mr. Munoz? No? Mr. Matthews? Not really, except I would mention I know Phoenix House does do good work as well. Yeah, and Ms. Foster was terrific in her testimony earlier. Councilman Wong?

To the gentleman that was living at the board— Mr. Byrd. Oh, I'm sorry. I went to get my coffee. I didn't get your name. While you were there, did you have access to the library or the computers? We have access to the library and the computers, but no internet. So there was no internet connection to the computers?

Not when I was there, no. Thank you. Thank you, Chair. You're welcome. I just wanted to note that both Commissioner Dalton and Commissioner Mata are here, so they are listening intently with their teams. to everyone's testimony. Thank you, gentlemen. Appreciate it very much.

All right, at this point we'll bring up our next panel: Dr. Cleopatra Brown, Kevin Meggett, Joe Bello, Jesse Figueroa, Ryan Graham, David Kelly, William Gibson, and this person's in a different color. Okay, and we're not sure if Timothy Terrain is still present. If he— if Timothy Terrain is still present, you can queue up. If not, hopefully we can hear his testimony in writing.

Yeah, no, I'm not gonna argue with these These guys, they're tough. So, Dr. Brown, these gentlemen are both warriors and gentlemen, and they insist that you go first. We'll begin with you when you're ready.

Good afternoon, everyone. Just want to begin by saying thank you to the Chair Marano, to the Co-Chair Ms. Hudson, and the New York City Council Committee on the Veterans Affairs. Committee of Veterans, the Council Committee of Veterans. My name is Dr. Cleopatra Brown. I'm a Cold War Navy veteran and a homeowner in the Brownsville section of Brooklyn.

I served from August 1982 to May 1988 and also reservist in the New York City Navy for 2 years. I'm also the chairperson of Brooklyn Community Board 16 Veterans Affairs Committee. And I serve on the Joint Community Boards 3, 8, and 16 Veterans Committee. On behalf of the Joint Veterans Committee, we are in support of Resolution 0560-2026.

The United States Department of Veterans Affairs VA Home Loan Guarantee Program has been a cornerstone for veterans for over 80 years and is one of the most essential benefits earned by eligible veterans, active duty service members, and qualifying surviving spouses, providing pathways to sustainable homeownership and long-term financial stability. The VA Home Loan Guarantee Program currently supports the purchase of eligible single-family homes and condominiums, but strictly excludes veterans from using their benefit service to purchase co-ops.

This limitation creates a significant barrier for veterans in New York City and other high-cost urban housing markets where co-op apartments make up a substantial share of the available homeownership market. Veterans who have earned the VA home loan benefit through military service should not be prevented from fully utilizing that benefit simply because an affordable homeownership opportunity is structured as a cooperative rather than a condominium or traditional single-family residence.

In 2006, Congress recognized this issue and authorized a temporary 5-year pilot program. Unfortunately, administrative delays caused it to underperform. The VA took nearly 3 years to publish the lender guidelines. Furthermore, the agency failed to market the benefit, leaving most eligible service members unaware of the option. The pilot program expired unrenewed in 2011. The Fair Access to Co-ops for Veterans Act of 2025, H.R. 1803, was introduced in Congress to amend Title 38 of the United States Code and improve the Department of Veterans Affairs loan guarantee program by providing permanent authority for VA-guaranteed financing for the purpose of residential co-ops.

Federal guidelines currently allow veterans to use their VA loan benefits to purchase single-family homes, condominiums, townhouses, townhomes, or manufactured homes. However, H.R. 1803 will add a 3.25% loan fee for co-op housing loans. The New York City Council should examine this proposed 3.25% cooperative loan fee and consider whether it would create affordability barriers for veterans seeking to purchase co-op apartments, especially given significant monthly maintenance charges and co-op board financial requirements.

While H.R. 1803 requires federal legislation legislative action, New York City Council Resolution 0560/2026, as an important opportunity to help develop an effective implementation framework for VA-guaranteed co-op housing loans. Expanding VA-guaranteed financed cooperative housing will allow veterans to have equitable access to the homeownership benefit they earned through their military service, provide veterans with greater housing employees, increase access to homeownership, allow veterans and their families to build equity and generational wealth, and help address disparities in veteran homeownership in high-cost urban communities.

On behalf of the Joint Veterans Affairs Committee, we recommend that the New York City Council establish a coordinated initiative involving the New York City Department of Veterans Services, DVS, the New York State Housing Preservation and Development, New York City Housing Development Corporation, the New York City Department of Consumer and Workers Protection, participating financial institutions, co-op housing, and veteran-serving organizations.

This initiative should establish veterans co-op homeownership counseling, financial workshops, education on the VA loan eligibility, down payment or closing cost assistance and referrals to participant lenders. Identify cooperative housing opportunities in New York City that may qualify for VA-guaranteed finance under future federal requirements. Examine co-op corporation policies concerning down payments, financial reserves, debt-to-income ratios, board approvals, and transfer restrictions to determine how these requirements can interact with VA lending standards.

Coordinate homeownership counseling, financial readiness workshops, and information about applicable down payment or closing cost assistance programs. And engage banks, credit unions, and other lending institutions to identify financial and regulatory barriers affecting the VA-guaranteed co-op loans. To promote transparency and accountability, I recommend that the New York City Council Committee on Veterans establish guardrails for collecting information on participant lenders, eligible cooperative developments, veterans' applications, loan approvals and denials, and complete purchases in accordance with applicable privacy requirements.

And Dr. Brown, I'm just going to ask you to wrap up. Yes. Thank you. Okay. Just to wrap up. Please. In addition, request a formal interagency comprehensive report from DVS, HPD, HDC to identify any additional steps that may be contingent on congressional actions and that they may require additional city resources or legal authority. Thank you for your time and consideration.

Thank you very much.

Mr. Graham. It's funny, I have good morning on here. Good afternoon, chairs and members of the Committees on Veterans and General Welfare. Thank you for the opportunity to testify. My name is Ryan Graham. I'm a U.S. Air Force and Iraq War veteran. I serve as the chair of the New York City Veterans Advisory Board, a member of the VFW's National Legislative Committee, and State Legislative Vice Chair for the Department of New York VFW.

My testimony draws on these responsibilities and my continued work with and support of the veterans of the Foreign Wars of Department of New York legislative leadership team. I strongly support Introduction 1051 and Resos 560 and 634. Together, these measures address keeping veterans in their homes expanding access to homeownership, and strengthening the organizations that help veterans navigate life after service.

Introduction 1051 deserves particular attention. In 2018, I was the original writer of this property tax exemption proposal, advanced through the Queens County Council VFW Legislative Committee, and then on to— which was introduced by State Senator Joe Addabbo and Assemblywoman Stacy Pfeffer Amato. That work helped establish the foundation for my continued advocacy on this issue, which I have carried forward through my ongoing role with and support of our Department of New York VFW legislative leadership team.

For me, this is a commitment that began 8 years ago and continues today. I thank Councilmember Frank Marano, Chair, and the bill's co-sponsors for advancing this legislation. I'll pause for a second. A lot of— I've noticed quite a few legislatures are jumping on board with this. Buffalo just did it. And hopefully it doesn't take 8 years to do this here in New York City.

Hopefully we get this through right away. Furthermore, for these veterans, the financial consequences of service can last a lifetime. A permanent disability can limit employment, increase the cost of daily living, and place additional responsibilities on family caregivers. Property taxes remain a recurring obligation even when a veteran's ability to earn additional income is permanently constrained. This exemption would provide meaningful stability and help eligible veterans remain in the communities they call home.

Housing policy must also include preventing displacement before a veteran reaches a shelter door, keeping an eligible disabled veteran in an existing home. Preserve the family stability, community connections, and access to care. The council now has an opportunity to turn state authorization into tangible local relief. I urge prompt passage accompanied by a clear implementation plan from the Department of Finance and Department of Veterans Services.

The same commitment to housing stability must guide our response to ongoing issues at Borden Avenue residents. As Chair of the New York City Veterans Advisory Board, I take these concerns seriously. We will be providing recommendations to the Mayor and the City Council in our 2026 New York City VAB report on the way forward. Those recommendations will follow further review.

The points I offered today reflect an initial assessment. First, funding through the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs GPD program must remain available to support veterans who need those services— these services. GPD supports transitional housing and services that help veterans move toward permanent housing. I'm going to move forward. At the time, preserving federal support requires a serious examination of who is entrusted to deliver the services.

There is a legitimate question about whether the current provider should continue to hold up the operating contract. That question should be answered through a documented review of contract compliance conditions, staffing, resident concerns, corrective actions, and permanent housing outcomes. The city's operating contract and the VA's GPD program must be examined by the responsible authorities with coordination between them.

I'm going to stop right there. I got more here. My take, it's going to come out from the VAB that something like this, there's way too much evidence. One of the biggest smoking guns was a FOIA request that I saw. In a year and a half period, 3, on average 3 a day, 911 calls. That's a problem.

Somebody here in one of the prior panels mentioned that honestly, I mean, something like this, if it's been going on for a long time, You know, it's, it's, and then the other big concern, I happen to be there and, well, in the background with Councilman Wong and Councilwoman Julie Wan. New York City Council, you're the oversight. You should have access to these facilities.

But, um, like I said, we're going to have, we're going to have something extensive in our VAB report, especially in, on housing. So the council and the mayor's I will see it. But I mean, from an initial assessment, I mean, I've been around the block a long time. Something like this, honestly, I'd sever the contract. And I would just do a complete reset.

Thank you, Mr. Graham. First of all, thank you for all of the work that you've done to lay the groundwork for Intro 1051 and the property tax exemption for disabled veterans that we're trying to pass. And as far as your comment about oversight, The differences of opinions that you've heard from council members today, I think the one thing that unites all of us is that we all agree that part of our oversight responsibility should be able to include dropping into Borden Avenue and similar shelters whenever we'd like.

So I appreciate that, Mr. Figueroa.

Good, good afternoon, everybody. Buenas tardes a todos. My name is Jesse Figueroa. I'm a U.S. Army veteran. I was a guardsman during 9/11, right down the street where it happened with the 369th and Harlem Hellfighters. That dates back to World War I. I'm Puerto Rican. I live in Brooklyn. I'm in City Council District 43. So I wrote— I have a testimony right here, but unfortunately my battery's going to die any moment.

But here's what happened. I was there on Borden Avenue October 1st. I witnessed everything firsthand from outside, including two of our beloved city council members Philip Wong and Julie Wong. I call them the twin W's. But um, I saw what happened outside. I heard testimony from the former residents and current residents, and it turned my stomach upside down.

And and and the two council members did. Exercised what was the mandate of the city charter, whatever was explained. And it was embarrassing. The previous speaker was with me and other, uh, Mike Matos was with me and everybody else was there. And it was embarrassment. I was embarrassed. Shame on the organization who runs it. I'm sorry, shame on you.

The hell is wrong with you people? We are we veterans took that flag off for that flag right there every day. That's that, and the way the pole the flagpole was positioned incorrectly. It should be on the left side when you when you're when you're outside supposed to be this way, not that way. That was an embarrassment that I'm asking that the people that the council oversights that matter because that was a total disrespect.

Of us veterans, we were born. We were born by the grace of God through our families. We are all created equal regardless of race, religion, color, gender, etc. And we all deserve respect and we demand respect. We we all have a place to live. I'm I'm also a trauma survivor. I'm not going to bring that up right now.

And um. That's that. That's that. I'm very, very disappointed at the local organization, and we are not going to give up. We're going to keep advocating until we are on our last breath, and we will call on the organization's leadership to completely resign. And we need people to step up as leaders. I lead. I lead by example.

And also, as a VFW member, the same thing. We lead by example. We fail, we resign. That's that. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Figueroa.

Mr. Meggett, and I'll note I had the privilege of hearing you at the New York State Veterans Summit at the Intrepid last week, and as always, your words were very impactful and forceful. So look forward to to hear your testimony today as well. Thank you.

On behalf of Veteran Action Now, I'd like to thank this committee for the opportunity to speak for some of them— for some of New York City's most vulnerable and often forgotten residents, our veterans. But let me be clear, being allowed to speak is not not the same as being heard. And being thanked for your— our service is not the same as being served.

According to the New York City Comptroller, New York City recorded approximately $1.47 billion in asylum seekers spending in fiscal year 2023, $3.75 billion in 2024, and $3.2 billion in 2025. These expenditures supported the city's emergency response, including shelter and services. By comparison, the city's preliminary fiscal year 2026 budget proposed $5.9 million for the Department of Veterans and Services.

Approximately $490 $94,000 less than fiscal year 2025 adopted budget. To be precise, that was a preliminary proposal, not the final fiscal— not the final adopted figure. There are differences. There are different spending categories for the Department of Veterans Service budget does not represent every dollar the city spends on veterans, but that distinction does not erase the question for us.

Where's the same urgency when a veteran needs a place to live? This is not an argument against helping asylum seekers. It's not an argument against asking veterans— this is an argument to asking veterans not to accept neglect. We should not have to compete with other vulnerable populations for basic dignity and safe, affordable housing. When veteran homelessness is not simply a housing problem, it's a statement about our priorities.

Budgets reveal what government is prepared to fund. Policies reveal what government is prepared to protect. And when veterans remain homeless or cannot afford to stay in the city that they call home, problem, speeches about gratitude are not enough. To the mayor and the members of this committee, if you believe veterans are a priority, show us. Show us the funding, the housing commitments, the enforceable protections, and the measurable results.

Do not point to a proclamation when we are asking for a place to live. I also would like to make an important distinction. Department of Veterans Services is not the target of my criticism. Its staff must work within the resources and policy framework that this administration and the City Council provide. On several occasions, I have contacted the department on behalf of veterans in need Its staff responded promptly and helped resolve those issues.

For that, I offer them a sincere thank you. But I intend to keep the needle on the record, put responsibility where it belongs—with the elected officials who set the priority, write the budgets, and decide what gets done. In my experience. this city, this state, and this administration has not demonstrated the commitment veterans deserve. About a year ago, I personally asked the mayor whether he was anti-veteran.

He said to me no and asked why would I ask that question. I told him I had not heard, or I had not heard him mention veterans during his campaign for mayor. That absence matter to me. So did his decision to endorse someone for Congress whom I believe had an attack and belittled our community. When veterans are disparaged, we deserve leadership willing to stand with us, not political endorsements that leave, leave us questioning where do we stand.

We serve to defend the Constitution of the United States. We should not have— we should not return home only to feel invisible by government we serve. We are not asking for special treatment. We are demanding that the city promises mean something. We are not war criminals, and a cardboard box is not a medal. A shelter bed is not a housing policy.

And warehousing veterans is not the same as being— as bringing them home. We are your neighbors, workers, parents, caregivers, community leaders. We deserve safe, stable housing that genuinely afford— that's genuinely affordable, not merely labeled affordable while it's beyond our reach. So do we not— so So do not simply thank us for our service. Show us in your budget and your policies that our lives matter after the service ends.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Meggett. Yes, sir. Just point the microphone towards you and keep it close. All right. So sorry, brother. So I've never done this before. That's okay. And there's a pretty good chance I might be the youngest veteran in here, so I hope everyone bears with me. me.

First things first, it's been like a lot of heavy adult energy today. So I'm gonna say let's go Knicks and get that out. There you go. Yeah. And even before the let's go Knicks, tell us, tell us your name so everybody knows. Oh, yeah. I'm supposed to say good afternoon, Chair, members of the Veteran and General Welfare Committees.

My name is David Kelly. I'm a transplant from Wichita, Kansas. I moved here about It's gonna be four years in about January. Super happy to be here. Super happy to be engaging with everyone. I'm super happy to be a part of this process today. I'll take you guys back. I'm gonna share a little bit of story. I was gonna like you know just talk, but 2019, my mom and trigger warning no profanity, but I'm just gonna open up to you guys from Kansas.

We're really straightforward out there. My mom she passed away from cancer in 2019. Or she got diagnosed in 2019. I went to boot camp in March of 2020, and she passed away in April of 2020. My mom was the main catalyst behind me joining the Marine Corps. I got out a couple years ago. Because of COVID I couldn't go home for her funeral.

My mom passed in April. I didn't get back home to Kansas until October. So I finished my commitment. And I reset. I'm 28 years old. That was about— it's going to be 4 years next year. So, you know, I was in, I'm out. And the entire time that I've been in New York, I've had the immense pleasure and privilege of figuring it out in my mid-20s.

It's been great. As far as working for— I don't know if I'm allowed to say my organization because I'm not really high up on the totem pole like that, but I am a Enhanced Harm Reduction Specialist turned Veteran Outreach Specialist as of this past February. And being a veteran myself, an infantry veteran, peacetime vet, I didn't do anything, but I got trained to do that.

I'm able to build a rapport with people on the streets. I feel like I offer a unique perspective to everyone here as far as what outreach specialists go through on a day-to-day basis.

The impact that I've been personally like a part of, meeting clients where they're at, the work that we all do. I believe you guys said it was something 187. Sorry, I was listening, but I, you know, I got one of those young attention spans. We had a Code Blue sometime in February, right, of this year. I was working when that happened.

It was an overtime opportunity for me, and I was personally able to see the impact that it had on getting people off the streets when it was too cold. cold to be out on the streets. Everything that's going on with the housing stuff, I feel like because I'm not from New York, I might be misspeaking as well, but I feel like there's a lot of intersectionality between harm reduction and the homelessness stuff going on when it comes to interlinking and correlating certain services together.

We haven't, from what I've heard so far today, I don't know if it happens at a different time, But the harm reduction sphere, we do a really good job of meeting veterans. And I wanna say the one thing I will quote is the contract that I work under for my nonprofit is RFA 20620, priority population specifically for veterans.

I didn't hear that get mentioned at all today as far as like a modality for helping veterans. Also, if anyone wants, Like, you know, I don't know where my time is, but we got 1:18. So, you know, I'll open it up for questions. You guys can ask, like, you know, a nice-looking young man anything that you want.

First of all, sorry about your mom's passing. Thank you for your service, and thank you for being here today. And I'm assuming since you moved here from somewhere else that you probably live in Chair Hudson's district, right? So my first apartment was actually, I don't know the districts, I'm not gonna lie to you. Well, what borough do you live in?

Manhattan. Okay, all right, so. But I live up in Harlem and I work in Harlem and the Bronx. Again, I don't know what I'm allowed to say and not say, so I'm not gonna name drop my place of employment. Yeah, give us your apartment number. The social right after that, I got you. Thank you for everything you're doing in the nonprofit sector.

Thank you for being here. You did great. Every first-time person testifying should do as well as you've done, and I appreciate, I appreciate the guidance for the committee as well and your perspective. Thank you very much. I do have one question. So what would you say from your experience— you do street outreach, is that correct? Yes. So what would you say across all populations or just Or just specifically for veterans experiencing homelessness?

So people who use drugs, a percentage of those folks are veterans. And we specifically started focusing on veterans as of March of this year with that new contract. But before that— oh, sorry. No, no, please go ahead. Before that, yeah, like my entire role and responsibility was to be an enhanced harm reduction specialist. And then, you know, it changed with the new contract and now I'm a veteran outreach specialist.

So I'm talking to the same folks. I think working as a, just a harm reduction specialist and just working with like your average denizen that's in the transient population and all those like really, really like formative days of work that I've experienced on the front lines there. I will say that the biggest challenge I've seen in these last couple months, it's adjacent to the same challenges that we see in harm reduction just in general.

Linkages to services, linkages to care, Follow-ups, just surface level. Being able to like come into like a new organization. I found out what an MOU was earlier this year. Don't tell my boss that. Like, it's been a lot, but it's been a good a lot, you know? Because I'm helping New Yorkers. I'm a New Yorker now. Well, y'all say I have to be here for like 7 years to actually be a New Yorker is what I've heard.

But most people say 10, but— Yeah. Okay. It's not— Yeah. So I got 7 more. We good. Nothing. So, you know, I appreciate your work. I'm just trying to get a better understanding. So do you— how do you identify clients? So that's the beauty of outreach. We're outside with that and we reach out and touch people like AT&T, like, hey, how are you today?

We have incentives. Of course we have just conversations. But there's a, there's, there's a lot of ways to reach out. Um, but just, sorry, just to clarify, you're serving everybody, not only veterans? Because I guess what I'm trying to get at is, how do you identify whether somebody is a veteran or not if they're experiencing homelessness on the street?

I'm trying to figure out how to work that without name-dropping my place of employment. Um, you wear like branded clothing or something? Yes, we brand. Um, we also Was that giving it away? No. Okay. I'm sorry. So you naming your place of employment, I don't think is a negative. And certainly, I mean, they oh Harlem that they can't hold that against you.

Harlem United for everyone today, and you're here instead. No, no, no, no. So you know this is actually one of the first times I've ever been able to do like okay like this is veteran focused. That's literally in my job description: veteran outreach specialist. So I feel like. like I was supposed to be here. I will say I probably could have practiced the words a little bit better.

I'm a little nervous now. But yeah, like, hopefully I answered your question. Did I? If not, please tell me because I'm learning so much today. So much. Yeah. And you're— and like Chair Marrano said, you're doing a great job. I'm just trying to get a better understanding as far as the work that you do and your experience when you're doing your outreach.

How are you specifically identifying who is a veteran that's sleeping on the street? You talk to them. Okay, so if somebody is not a veteran, then they would still be able to receive harm reduction services. So if they need like a wound care kit— So you're talking to everybody and then you're doing— you're giving particular focus to those who may be veterans?

And I'm giving referrals to everyone else. Got it. Okay, thank you.

Thank you. Terrific job. Thank you. Then let's go to Mr. Gibson. Yes. Well, okay.

Good afternoon, all. My name is William Gibson. Last place I served was the Fighting 69th Unit, not too far from here. I'm what you would call— they would say— they would call me the NBC guy. Hi, I'm the chemical operations specialist for the Army. Hi. Uh, I would like to say that beauty is subjective and there's nuance to everything.

And I say that because I currently stay at Borden and I've been there for a little while. I had to go through numerous personal challenges while being I've been to 9 funerals since I've been at Borden. Family, friends, and also one of those included my father who died last year. I would like to say that— Thank you.

I would like to say that yes, Borden does need help. There's improvements that should be made. The building needs to be fixed and You know, the food needs help, yes, but there's nuance to everything. The library, we have access to the library, but when there's a group going on, being that that's the public place, then it's closed off for that group to commence.

After the group is over, then the library is open back to the public. but it's also closed overnight because the rec room and the cafeteria are open for everybody to hang out at overnight and watch TV and talk and do things. There's nuance to everything. There's good soldiers and bad soldiers. To the rules of eating, we're not allowed to bring food in, and if you do, there's the blue room that's off to the side, which is Yeah.

There's a small little space, you can eat there, but you can't go no further than there. Once again, there's nuance to everything. With the staff being there, it's a two-way street. You have to meet with the staff. They put out notices, appointment slips. There's even, you know, Slips that come out and say, "Hey, when they're going to do a room check."

So there's an accountability there that's also on the residents: keep your place clean, keep everything dressed right, as we would say in the military. But that ain't the case with a lot of people. And this is not to put everybody on Front Street, but accountability can go both ways. You know, the staff can't chase us all down and have us meet with them.

Now, me, when I first got there, I was very silent because you don't know how to speak to anybody about your situation. But while being there, I've had time to self-examine me, my life, and now I have a team that's working with me. And when I need to talk, they let me know that I can talk, which I'm still trying to get used to. to accepting that because I'm used to doing everything on my own.

But I would say, y'all, as the political chair, that you vet all your information wisely. You check out the place and vet it wisely. You listen to the complaints wisely. You watch what ICL Wisely, because that's your job, the vet, and you should be checking out everything, just not a little small pocket of things saying that's that.

No, check out everything. Try to get a good look at the place when it's running during its regular operation. Then you'll get to see the full picture. You know, so there's good and bad at boarding. Yes. Good and bad. And yeah, there's a lot of things that needs to be fixed and worked on. And when it comes to staff, yeah, they're not perfect.

But at the same time, we have to do our part as well. So it's a two-way street inside. And I just hope that you have to learn to listen to understand. Not listen to respond, because listening is truly a skill. Also watching and seeing what's going on. And so, Mr.

Gibson, just to be clear and for everybody, you're currently a resident at Borden? Yes. How long you been there? I've been there since February of 2025 with a break in between to bury my dad and came back. What is, if you had to pick, the single biggest problem with conditions at Borden right now? Wow. Or if you want to pick 2, pick 2.

See, that, that's wow, because now you're saying pick one thing. Well, pick 2. What would you do? Well, it would be great to have the GPD come back because that allowed extra time for me to be able to reach out with my family. Because I have 2 grandchildren currently in the ACS system. And with the GPD rule, they was able to see me longer because now they can know that they have a family member that will see them every so often and they're not alone.

Once the GPD rule got cut. What's been your experience in terms of how helpful the ICL staff has been in terms of getting you to transition into more permanent housing? Well, with the staff, they've been very understanding of me as a person, because what you got to understand is that all the residents there at Board and got an issue going on.

Now, whether or not they're going to look at it or they're able to talk about it, not talk about it, see, that's another issue. Because what I feel the staff has done with me, they tried to understand me first as an individual. So when I first got there, I wasn't able to really talk and express myself like I do now.

And they allowed me the room Yeah. To sort of come to them. And once they heard everything that I have going on, they were like, oh, wow. So they do their best, I feel, not to breathe down your neck, but at the same time, meet with them. So the thing that— if you go in and bring up my name, watch how the staff reacts.

Because even when I was When that notice came under the door, I made sure they saw me so that their work can be done. Because you got to remember, they get audited. My last question, and then I'll defer to colleagues, is, you know, we heard a lot from people and in the press that maybe the picture that I got when I visited Borden Avenue wasn't an accurate one.

Maybe they tried to get everything cleaned up and give residents warnings, hey, clean up your urine containers, so on and Based on your experience, is that accurate? Do they try to put their best foot forward when there are visitors, or did I get an accurate picture of what happened when I visited? Oh, well, I can speak to that very well.

So with that being said, the maintenance staff there cleans the place very regularly. Okay. All the time, irrespective of who's coming? All the time. Now, I will say it's been more cleaner of late because we've had, from my understanding, the amount of people that's been there were very low at one point. But now within the past couple of weeks, new face, new face, new face within the past couple of weeks.

So with that being said, when it comes to urine containers, I would like to say that get on the residents to keep their rooms clean because you have a personal space where other people and other residents, other shelters don't have a personal space. Keep it clean. And when it comes to the urine containers, dump them, wash them, contain them.

So when the staff needs to come in your room and do a room check, that, they don't have to be exposed to that. And let's also be clear here that, okay, look, there's a lot of guys in there that got disabilities. If it wasn't for those urine containers, we would be moonwalking on urine every day. I understand.

From their rooms to the bathrooms. And there's 2 sets of bathrooms. There's one in the cafeteria and there's the main bathroom. So those urine containers are a help to those guys. Understood. Just keep them clean. Thank you.

Anybody else have questions for Mr. Gibson? Chair Hudson, and then— There's nuance to everything. There absolutely is, and I appreciate your testimony. I just wanted to verify, and maybe I'll have to get this from somebody else, but the GPD rule, do you know if that was related to the federal funding? From my understanding, I was told that now the facility now is ran totally by DHS.

Okay. Yeah. And with the GPD rule being gone, the extra time I was allowed to be out, I can't do that no more. Okay. And extra time you were allowed to be out, meaning out of the shelter? Yes. Okay. Thank you. Councilman Wong. Just one question. Thank you, Chair. One question. Do you have access to the library's computers and books right now?

Yes, just not overnight. Okay. Do you have internet? Yeah, there's internet there. That you can visit websites, right? Yes, and we can also sign in on our phones. But there's a 24-hour lockout rule. So meaning that, you know, I'm a techie. So, you know, when you're logging into the site and onto the— to get access, it shuts you down after 24 hours and you have to relog in again.

That's not a bad thing. Okay. So that way, whoever's running, you know, the site administrator, they can do their cleanup and you have to log back in again. So that's the only rule with that. Thank you. Thank you all. Appreciate it very much.

I had called up Joe Bello earlier, but I don't think he was in the room and heard me call him up. Mr. Bello, I'd love for you to come up and be heard. Also, I'm gonna just call up a few other folks whose names I called but may have left the room or may not have heard me.

So if any of these people are in the room, they can come up as well. Timothy Terrain, Angel Sanza, Sharon White, Philip Venticingue, and Carmelo Stewart. If any of those folks are here, come on up and be seated at the witness table. And you're going to learn how it's done from a professional, Mr. Bello. Thank you. Mr.

Bella, whenever you're ready. All right.

I apologize for not hearing my name called. That's all right. Appreciate it. Appreciate the opportunity. I'll be real quick. There was a lot said today, and I'm still kind of processing some of the things I've heard, some of the things that were said. So you all have my testimony. One of the things, though, I think still goes back to what I had initially been writing about when we were talking about Borden was, you know, why did the VA reduce the funding for Borden?

And I appreciate you, Councilmember, for trying to reach out to the VA and get that answer, even if we're probably not going to get it. But I appreciate that. And then the second question, which I didn't hear quite a bit, I would have liked to have heard more of, was why did the city reject the reduced award without the conversation about the transgender veterans.

Because I think the problem is, is for me, it personally, I felt like we were being pitted against the LBGT community, and we're the same community. So I would have liked to have heard something a little more about why that money wasn't, wasn't taken, especially if you're looking at 231 beds and there's only 168 residents, you still had the space to do that.

So I think that was the 2 kind of questions. In terms of what's happening inside of Borden, I think the last gentleman who spoke, I think he was very transparent about what he's seeing, what he's witnessing. I've kind of heard and seen the same thing as well. I don't think that Again, there is a reason and rhyme to everything.

I think I know that if if I was inviting you over to my house, I would be cleaning up my house prior to you coming to visit me. So I think that some of it is common sense as well. I just think there was too much going on in terms of whether the council members should have should have been able to go in unannounced, which I think they should have.

And I think that I appreciate council member. Hudson for bringing up the law about what it says that they can't come in. I just think that there was there needs to be a better policy around that and making sure that it does protect the privacy of the veterans themselves.

The other thing I guess I'll talk about has been the roof. That has been a very big concern to me. I mean, going back as far as 2022, Council Member Bob Holden has been bringing that up. And it was asked again in 2025, and I've kind of heard the same answer now going back 4 years now. So at some point, you know, the rubber meets the road.

We have to figure out, like, when is this roof going to get done? You know, look, I recognize that the building is old. Personally, I would like to see it demolished and then, you know, maybe rebuilt. Maybe find somebody that would want to rebuild it and build it not just maybe as an SRO, but put some workforce development in it, a real kitchen, a bigger library, things like that.

So I think that's been one of the other problems for the roof that's bothered me. I would also like for the council to obtain a timeline from DHS identifying any work, not just the roof, but any work within Borden that's being done, whether it's, you know, what's outstanding, what's expected to be done. In terms of DVS, at the Veterans Summit, I know the Commissioner talked about revamping the housing unit.

I'd like to hear more details about that, or at least have you explore more details about that and how that is going to affect not just veterans outside of Borden, but veterans within Borden as well. I also think that we we need to go back. The council needs to go back and take a look at the December 2025 controller's report about the housing unit.

I think that there needs to be some just a review. What has changed from that from that report? I mean, it's almost been a year now, right? We're in October. So what's changed? What's better? It's being revamped. So how does that make things better? So I think those are clearly things that we can we can do.

Just to wrap up, because again there was a lot to take in from this hearing, and I'm going to have to rewatch it like probably two or three times just to get all the data from it. I support intros 1051 and reso 560. I disagree with reso 0634 in its current form. That's your Veteran Organizational Awareness Week.

As you know, this Kennedy Council passed. Passed a resolution a couple of years ago with Councilman Dinowitz that made November Veterans Month. Um, my feeling on that reso is that you're— the week would get lost because it is Veterans Week. So I would like for you to consider maybe redoing that resolution to make it either the week prior or the week after.

I think you might have a better, better piece with that, especially since, you know, what, what do we do to promote VSO Week, right? So that's it. Thank you. Thank you very much, Mr. Bello.

All right, before we turn over to the Zoom testimony, I want to make sure that everybody who would like to testify in person has gotten an opportunity to do so. If there's anybody who is here to testify in person that, that hasn't done so, So raise your hand and the sergeant-at-arms will get a card to you and make sure that they can testify.

Let's— we'll get these folks set up. And as we get these folks in the queue and get them ready, I'll remind everybody that's watching this either online or on cable that if you didn't know about this hearing in advance but you want to contribute something in terms of the oversight topic, or any of the legislation we're considering today, you absolutely can submit testimony in writing.

I've been getting some emails of folks that weren't able to be here, or had to leave, and they submitted testimony in writing. You could just email testimony@council.nyc.gov. That's council.testimony— excuse me, testimony@council.nyc.gov, and that testimony will be taken into account and the record just as much as everybody else's.

And, you know, I didn't get a chance to mention Intro 1051 earlier, but I appreciate Mr. Bellow and Mr. Graham referencing it in their testimony. Just for clarity's sake, for people that aren't up on this, the governor and the state legislature, they passed a bill creating a property Tax exemption for anyone that's listed as 100% disabled, service-connected, that's a veteran, as certified by the VA.

And basically that legislation would exempt those folks from paying property taxes. But the trick is the municipalities or the counties in the state have to opt in. So as of now, even though the state legislature passed that bill and the governor signed it, that changes nothing for any veteran in New York City unless we, the City Council, act.

So my hope is that this will be a great way to allow veterans who are disabled to be able to stay in New York and afford to stay in New York and not have to move elsewhere. And I'm really hopeful that we'll be able to pass that in time for Veterans Day. And so far the response that I've gotten from many of my colleagues has been very favorable.

All right, um, I had called, uh, Leroy Belton earlier, but, uh, I will— I would love for him to come up. He's a former ICL client, or it might be— excuse me, Leroy Becton. Excuse me. Uh, come on, come on up and, uh, be seated at the witness table. And is there anybody else in the room here that wants to testify in person.

All right, we'll get, we'll get your card in as well. Mr. Becton, right? Indeed, indeed. Thank you very much. Last time I met you was in the spring. It's great to see you again.

Indeed, my good brother, and all of you, I give you gratitude and thanks. Good afternoon. I am James Edward Becton III, Becton if you will. I am an artist, a disabled veteran, once of the Army, department head, chemical Corps as well, entrepreneur, founding executive artistic director of the Bechtel International Black Theatre and Arts Consortium, sitting here right now as a proactive citizen and in tandem as a proactive advocate with FiBro Veterans and all the other veterans to give note and gratitude to you all who have taken the time to make time to bring this issue to the light of day at this time.

After having served to protect this nation's Ideology, which is has been under assault for reasons quite antithetical to the very contract and constitution that I we did in fact both vocalize, sign, and exercise some of us to expiration. I experienced homelessness not once but twice after coming out of the service, and at no aid or assistance did I get from the VA because a part of that was VA issues.

I am an artist. Both of these times, I was enveloped and nurtured by my community of artists, and had it not been for that said community, I could have very well been a tenant in this here facility that we are investigating right now. We are all here today because of care, accountability, and taxpayer dollars. The care, a transitive verb, is because we are concerned enough to be here, as we all are, to make this note.

Accountability, or in this instance, one of many, a severe lacking of accountability. Our taxpayer dollars, the very ducats we've been mandatorily relinquishing since our first W-2s, the very cash that is taxed upon receipt, taxed to spend, taxed to save, taxed to Taxpayer dollars that are functioning everywhere in our faces but here at our home, in our own backyard.

This is on a micro level an exhibition of what's happening on a quite macro level. This is an issue regarding the lacking and fulfillment of a contractual obligation to properly remunerate with care the very citizens and service members veterans of these United States. Upon my introduction to Representative Wong, his immediate rebuttal to me was, I work for you.

And that is exactly the correct answer. And as we all sit here today vocalizing and testimonializing why this is important, I'm here to give you all gratitude again for taking up the reins. We as service members, look to you as elected led service members to do the right thing for we the people, and we're making our voices of support for these actions taken here today.

So I thank you kindly, truly, for your time and attention, for being proactive in dealing with these issues that don't only just deal with veterans but everybody. But today it's about veterans, and I give you grace for paying attention. And this is what I said to you when I met you last time, good sir, the only thing I requested of you was follow-up and accountability.

And the fact that we are here today, these many months later, means exactly that, that you are exactly following through. And I give you all grace and gratitude for it. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Becton. I do hope when Councilmember Wong told you that, you at least wished him a happy birthday. Oh, well, I'm wishing you a happy birthday now, brother, because you're doing the do, and that's exactly the representation that we're needing.

Thank you. Thank you very much, Mr. Becton.

All right, I believe we have one final gentleman in person, and I'll apologize in advance if I mispronounce your name, but it's Rana Bisesar. Please correct me. Is that correct? Yes. All right, great. All right, have a seat and begin whenever you're ready, and then we'll move over to the Zoom testimony. You could turn the mic on, keep it close to you.

Hello. All right. Good afternoon. My name is Ronald Bisesar, and I'm a retired Master Sergeant of the United States Army and a Bronze Star recipient for action in combat. I graduated from the University of Maryland College Park Overseas Campus where I got my bachelor's in— Bachelor of Science in Business and Management. I have continued my education since earning my New York City Certified Peer Specialist credential in 2024 and Certified Recovery Peer Advocate in 2025.

My testimony today to tell you the story of my transition from training and leading soldiers during Leading soldiers in war during the first half of my life, to support people experiencing homelessness during the second. I'm a peer counselor at Borden Avenue Veteran Residence since April 2024. I draw on lived lived experience and professional training to offer non-clinical emotional support, guidance, and mentorship.

Peer counselling connects individuals who had overcome adversities such as mental health challenges, substance use disorders, trauma, or academic barriers. With other similar— familiar circumstance, my Bronze Star and my certified recovery peer advocate and my New York City peer specialist certification reflect 2 complementary foundations of my work: military experience that helped me build trust with the veterans, and peer support training that equips me to support residents in their recovery.

Having counseled hundreds of soldiers As a leader on career progression and personal conduct, I bring mentorship-centered approach to peer support. I strive to model the resilience needed to navigate life's darkest moments, demonstrating how a soldier discipline and a counselor's empathy can work hand in hand. Also, recognition from Governor Scott in Florida, who also underscore administrative experience bring to my work.

Extending my commitment to service from the field, the office, and the Board I completed my peer counseling internship at Borden and have brought this approach and commitment to excellence to my work here from day one. I appreciate the opportunity to share how compassionate and dedication guide me My support for boarding clients today. One of my main job also I do is aftercare program, and I talk to veterans on a daily basis.

Once a month at boarding, we do the community meeting. All the staff will introduce themselves and tell them what they do, and I tell them plainly, "I'm here to help you." Thank you very much for your testimony. Thank you for your service, and a real honor to be joined by someone who's a Bronze Star recipient. Thanks for what you've done for the country as well.

Thank you. Thank you. All right, I think that concludes the in-person portion of our public testimony. We're now going to move. to remote testimony. If you're testifying remotely, please listen for your name to be called. Once your name is called, a member of our staff will unmute you, and you can start your testimony once the sergeant-at-arms sets the clock and cues you to begin.

All right, we are going to begin with Dr. Mecca Nelson. You might— you may begin once you are unmuted and the sergeant cues you. Thank you. All right, go ahead, Mecca.

Hello, good afternoon. Well, good afternoon. Hi there. It's a pleasure to be here. Uh, I just have a few things to say, and I would like to call this Testimony, dignity after service, a safe place to call home. Good morning, Chair and Co-Chair Hudson and distinguished members of the New York City Council. Thank you for holding this oversight hearing on veterans homelessness in New York City and for the opportunity to speak.

First off, I do want to say thank you to Phil and Julie for being a disruptor of change, for doing what needed to be done that created this space right now. And when I heard about what was happening, it hurt my heart dearly. Thank you. My name is Dr. Mecca Nelson, and I serve as vice chair for the New York City Veteran Advisory Board.

I'm also an ambassador for the Institute for Veterans and Military Families and an ambassador for the Tunnels to Towers Foundation. And I am also a small business owner and an executive director of nonprofit. Above all, I stand before you as a U.S. Army Gold Star spouse. My late husband, United States Army Sergeant Mario Nelson, was killed in combat on October 1st, '06.

I became a widow at the age of 24, raising our 3-year-old daughter. This month marks 20 years since his sacrifice. That loss continues to shape my commitment to those who serve and the families who serve alongside them. I bring that personal experience to my work and in the community, to this testimony. When I speak about our veterans' dignity, safety, and well-being, do know I speak from a heart that understands.

Today I ask us to listen closely to our veterans and respond with care. Thank you. It deeply concerns me to hear veterans describe the showers in their shelter as resembling— as a resemblance of being in a jail. We must listen to how those conditions make them feel. They are telling us that the place where they live does not feel like home.

It does not offer the comfort of sense of safety they need to rest and begin to heal. This affects their mental health. They come out with one situation or one issue, and as they go in and they're within this world and being inside that shelter, they come out with other things behind it. And deeply concerns me to take this space and to even be here right now speaking about this.

These are individuals who served our country. They deserve to be treated with respect, compassion, and care. Their needs should be attended to, their concerns should be heard, and their living conditions should support their health and well-being. Our veterans deserve clean showers with privacy, safe surroundings, and a welcoming place to rest. No veteran should have plead for these basic necessities or feel forgotten while seeking help.

A shelter may be temporary, but dignity, warmth, and care offered within it should be considered. We cannot ask someone to rebuild their life while overlooking the conditions in which they are expected to heal. How can you heal living in those conditions? conditions. Trauma is a serious thing, and trauma can affect you mentally, emotionally, spiritually, and physically. They served our country.

We have a responsibility to care for them with dignity. I respectfully urge the council to ensure a thorough, through independent review of the concerns raised about the facility including its structural conditions, sanitation, accessibility, and sustainability for residential shelter. If I cannot— if it cannot provide safe, healthy, dignified conditions, the city must provide an appropriate alternative and a supported transition for every veteran affected.

I also asked for a clear process process through which veterans can report concerns about fear of not being taken care of right, receiving timely responses, and participate in decisions about their care. How can you make decisions for the veterans and not have them in the room to say yay or nay? How would you know what they really need if you're not asking them?

Thank you, Dr. Nelson. Wait, I'm not done. I have more. I'm sorry, I have more. If you could bring it to a close, go ahead. Yeah, I will. Uh, I do feel that that building— and I agree with Joe— that building should be demolished. And, uh, I do have— I do— with my suggestion that I feel, uh, I, I know that Tunnels to Towers is a foundation that is building villages, veteran villages across every state.

However, we don't have one out here. And Tunnels Through Towers have over 20 veterans nationwide, but we don't have a location in New York for our veterans. And this is what I have to say so that I don't fall off anything, that my recommendation is that New York City should provide or have or give Tunnels Through Towers a location in New York.

So that they can have their own independency to do what they do because they're doing the work that they're doing without any issues. Help secure space to reduce unnecessary obstacles that allow Tunnel Tunnels to operate independently to carry out their mission. New York City has an opportunity to do more for our veterans and support our organizations working to help them.

Our veterans deserve a place that feels like home, a place of comfort, belonging, and hope. Members of the council, the decision made in the room become someone else's daily reality. They determine where a veteran sleeps tonight, whether the veteran can shower with dignity, and whether they feel heard, respected, and hopefully, and hopefully, hopeful about tomorrow. Let our appreciation become action.

Let our oversight lead to meaningful improvements. And let every veteran who turns to this city for help know your service matters, matters, your voice matters, your life matters, and you deserve a safe place to call home. Thank you.

Thank you very much, Dr. Nelson. All right. Next we have Christopher Leon Johnson. Mr. Johnson, you can begin as soon as you're unmuted. Uh, yeah, hello, can you hear me? Yes, sir, go right ahead.

Yeah, hello, my name, my name is Christopher Leon Johnson. I support all the bills on the ticker, including Rezo's. I want to make this clear that, um, look, uh, this, this issue is going to be helped with the federal government. Um, Veterans Affairs is morally federal But we have a mayor's administration that we can tell that they don't care about the veterans at all.

I can go back to that ruck walk they had, like 1.5 miles, but that's like a slap in the face. But the commissioner, I know her hands are tied. She's a great person at heart. I think she really cared about the veterans because she's a veteran herself, but her hands are tied with this mayor's administration because when it comes to the homeless issue, I have a big feeling that they don't really care about veterans at all.

What they care about more are people that are not veterans who commit crimes, who decide to be professional parasites, and they love pander to them because they're the ones that they feel that will deliver them a reelection bid in 2029. I wanna make this clear that That this ministry, I think the city council needs to start fighting.

No, it's a lot that y'all guys can't do because with the come the veterans because like I said, the mayor's office they have control with a lot of things. Veterans are treated like dirt in the city of New York, and it's a big problem here. Shout out to Julie Wan and Phil Wong for being out there trying to fight for the five-born veterans. veterans at the Borden Place Veterans Center in Long Island City, Sunnyside.

It just showed how veterans are really treated to the point where they treat city council members a certain way. It just shows how they really feel about veterans in the city of New York. They think they're nothing. But you don't see them get treated— you don't see them treat the average thugs that is homeless because they know they need their vote.

They know the guys go out and vote and do content for them. At the end of the day, it's a long battle. It's a long battle. And I'm not here to throw anybody on the bus except for the mayor's office. And you can't throw the Veterans Commissioner on the bus because she does a great— she's a great person that deserves to be in that position.

I think she'd be better off in international affairs. I mean, that's my advice. But look, it's something where we need more conversations about this. I think that— I don't know why they keep on doing these hearings inside the committee room. It just looks like a slap in the face. They should have did it inside City Hall chambers.

I think it's better off. But I mean, veterans, they need the proper respect in the city. And the start is just like they need more allocation to the budget. And next year, hopefully next year, they have the veterans parade on Fifth Avenue or hell, a parade like they did the Labor Day parade on Lower Manhattan, like on Liberty, um, Heroes Plaza.

Um, but at the end of the day, uh, this is something that I support 100%. Um, you know, staying home right now, but, but thank you so much and, um, take care. Enjoy.

Thank you, Mr. Johnson. I appreciate your participation today and your frequent citizen activism as well. Um, all right. We have 2 additional folks on Zoom. We'll go next to Douglas Encarnacion. Oh, sorry. We have a couple witnesses who signed up to testify remotely, but they may have logged off. So Douglas Encarnacion or Kenneth Abrantes, if either of you were there, please let us know.

Raise your hand. If there's anyone else currently on Zoom who wishes to speak but hasn't had the opportunity to do so, please use the raise hand function and our staff will unmute you. Anybody there? If there's anyone else present in the room who hasn't had the opportunity to testify but wishes to do so, please raise your hand.

All right. Seeing no hands, I would like to note again that members of the public can submit written testimony to testimony@council.nyc.gov within 72 hours of this hearing. And I'll invite Co-Chair Hudson to give her closing remarks, if any.

Thank you so much. Just a big thank you to everyone who came to testify today, and especially all of the veterans. Thank you. I again want to thank Chair Hudson for her partnership and her diligence in this oversight topic and this hearing. And as comes as no surprise to any of us that follow his City Council career, I want to especially acknowledge once again Councilmember Wong as being the only non-chair that stays till the very end of this hearing.

He is a model public servant, and if there's any justice in the world, all of his birthday wishes will come true today and always. I do hope that this is the— not even close to the end of the discussion of the work that we're doing on veteran homelessness and in looking at a lot of the important legislation that we reviewed today.

Homelessness is a complex problem, veteran homelessness even more so, and I really appreciate where everyone came from today, both physically in some cases and emotionally in others, and in terms of their experiential journey. I think we all want to get to the same place, even if we have a lot of different perspectives as to how to get there.

And as long as I have the good fortune of chairing this committee, I'm committed to making sure that we, we do get there. So my thanks to the administration, particularly Commissioner Dalton and Commissioner Mata, and my thanks especially to everyone that testified testified. And again, I can't stress enough to the public that if you didn't have an opportunity to testify today, send us your testimony in writing.

It will absolutely be included in the record. And as the committee prepares a report about today's hearing, it will absolutely be included as we make decisions about how to pursue different recommendations. You know, one thing that I think is certainly calling out for legislative clarification when councilmembers can visit Borden Avenue and shelters in general. I think a lot of my colleagues who may agree on very little all agree that councilmembers have an important oversight role to play, and we'll work to clarify that in terms of legislative language.

With that, I'm grateful to everyone who attended today's hearing, grateful to everyone who watched, and with that, this hearing is now adjourned.